Vikings Message Board.Com

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:22 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:38 pm Well the Ravens just traded Joe Flacco to the Broncos. Which goes to show how much confidence Denver has in Case Keenum which is none. This is why I continued to say that signing Cousins was easily our best option last year. Keenum cant be trusted and is a one year wonder. Simple as that. He's simply not a good starting QB. However, I dont think Flacco is good either but definitely better than Case. But I'm starting to think John Elway of all people, has no idea how to assess QBs. Guys think Spielman is bad....look at one of the best QBs to ever play....he doesnt have a clue.





Cant wait to hear the...."lets bring Case back" chants

He is one of the best backups in the NFL. If Cousins wasn't incredibly durable, I would want him back no doubt.

Flacco is an upgrade over Keenum, but his price tag and a 3rd or 4th round pick make this a bad move by the Broncos. Flacco isn't winning anyone at SB at this point in his career, and is not a long term solution.

Point is, you would want him back as a backup. Not a starter. That's my point. I would love him as a backup that's for sure. But many thought we should have kept him as our starter over signing Cousins this year. And this is exactly why I didnt want to do that. Because he was a one year wonder that was a product of Pat Shurmur's system. I've said this since the 2017 season ended. I said he would quickly fizzle out in Denver, come back to reality and make his way to being a backup within a year or two. That is exactly what is about to happen. So for all the guys that hated on Cousins all season and "wish we still had Case", we could be in MUCH worse shape right now if we stuck with Keenum instead of Cousins. Because in turn, we would either be stuck with Keenum for another year (much worse), make a trade for a guy like Joe Flacco (much worse) or go into this year without a QB and starting from square 1 with a rookie (that we would have to spend a first round pick on) and pass on OL or any other position for that matter (high probability of being much worse unless we struck gold on the QB).

VikingLord wrote: ↑Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:16 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:38 pm Cant wait to hear the...."lets bring Case back" chants

How about bringing him back as a veteran backup?

Well yeah I'd be all for that. But remember half the board wishing he was still our starter mid season.....that is what I'm referring to. I continued to say he's been awful in Denver and guys tried to argue that. The Broncos had such little confidence in him that they are about to eat $10 million in dead money and brought in Joe fricken Flacco. Granted, John Elway is absolutely clueless but still, this says a lot about Case Keenum being a legit or even decent starting QB in this league.

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:24 pm

VikingLord wrote: ↑Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:16 pm

How about bringing him back as a veteran backup?

Well yeah I'd be all for that. But remember half the board wishing he was still our starter mid season.....that is what I'm referring to. I continued to say he's been awful in Denver and guys tried to argue that. The Broncos had such little confidence in him that they are about to eat $10 million in dead money and brought in Joe fricken Flacco. Granted, John Elway is absolutely clueless but still, this says a lot about Case Keenum being a legit or even decent starting QB in this league.

The team Case went to had 1 more win than they did they year before. The team Cousins went to had 5 less wins than the year before so as far as impact to the team goes, I give Case the edge. Cousins did look better doing it though.

The situation matters but we've gone down that rabbit hole. In the end this team would still probably have won 8 games with Case at the helm (keeping in mind the teams they beat were nearly all bad teams anyway ...). Even if they won less, who cares in retrospect? A lot of people wanted Case to stay not because he's "the future" necessarily but neither is Cousins. Now that he's on the team they'll stop trying to improve the position.

They could have had a round 1 QB on the bench last season behind Keenum and gearing him up to start this season. Or maybe Keenum would have kept up the chemistry he had with the Vikings.

Cliff wrote: ↑Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:22 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:24 pm

Well yeah I'd be all for that. But remember half the board wishing he was still our starter mid season.....that is what I'm referring to. I continued to say he's been awful in Denver and guys tried to argue that. The Broncos had such little confidence in him that they are about to eat $10 million in dead money and brought in Joe fricken Flacco. Granted, John Elway is absolutely clueless but still, this says a lot about Case Keenum being a legit or even decent starting QB in this league.

The team Case went to had 1 more win than they did they year before. The team Cousins went to had 5 less wins than the year before so as far as impact to the team goes, I give Case the edge. Cousins did look better doing it though.

The situation matters but we've gone down that rabbit hole. In the end this team would still probably have won 8 games with Case at the helm (keeping in mind the teams they beat were nearly all bad teams anyway ...). Even if they won less, who cares in retrospect? A lot of people wanted Case to stay not because he's "the future" necessarily but neither is Cousins. Now that he's on the team they'll stop trying to improve the position.

They could have had a round 1 QB on the bench last season behind Keenum and gearing him up to start this season. Or maybe Keenum would have kept up the chemistry he had with the Vikings.

No offense Cliff, but the whole "Case had chemistry with this team" thing is garbage. Who did he have chemistry with?? Thielen and Diggs??! If you dont somehow have chemistry with arguably the best WR duo in the NFL, then you shouldnt be in the NFL. Both Diggs and Thielen's numbers escalated drastically with Cousins at QB. So if anything, they had better chemistry with Cousins than Keenum. Diggs numbers this year shattered his year with Case in almost all aspects. Thielen was literally on pace to break a how many year old record of straight 100 yard games? So who else did he have chemistry with over what Cousins had with any of these guys?? The RBs? Doubtful. The OL? Well Case actually had two serviceable guards last year and Cousins had two trash cans. The defense? Has nothing to do with who is playing QB in this situation.

I will tell you who he had chemistry with.....Pat Shurmur. And Pat Shurmur is now gone. So if we stuck with Case, given the schedule we had this year and the dud of an OC we had, I can just about guarantee we wouldnt have anywhere near the same record. It would have been much worse. You're saying Case would have had the same amount of wins roughly.....we played some of the same teams this year. Case was blown out by the Jets, they blew out Arizona SOLELY because their defense went off and RBs played well (Case actually played pretty poor that game), got beat by SF and got smoked by the Raiders (and he nearly lost to them BOTH times. And even though we didnt play them, I guarantee we beat them with Cousins). Those are the 4 worst teams in the NFL this year. Literally, they have the first 4 picks of the draft. And he went 1-3 against them. Possibly 0-4 if his defense and RBs didnt carry him in the Arizona game. So I dont know how ANYONE can sit there and say he would have had the same record with us when he couldnt beat 3 of the 4 worst teams in the entire NFL. Cousins went 3-0 vs. those teams.

There is literally no comparison when it comes to Cousins vs. Case. Case has zero edge. There is a reason Case is no longer in Denvers plan after 1 year.

And what rookie QB were we possibly going to land that could take over Case's starting job this coming year?? We were picking 30th! Mayfield went 1st, Darnold went 3rd, Allen went 7th and Rosen went 10th. Jackson ended up going 32nd but he's literally a RB playing QB and would be a complete waste for guys like Thielen and Diggs. Do you realize how much it would cost us future wise to move from 30th to even 10th to take Rosen??! This is my whole point. There was no better option than Cousins. And if we stuck with Case, in turn, we would have been sitting here with our cranks in our hand fishing for another QB this offseason because Case sucked A$$ this year. And 99.9% of this board would be saying...."Spielman is an idiot for not pulling the trigger on Cousins and once again, we're without a QB this year".

And I guess my other thing is that there was literally so much luck behind Keenums year last year and some fans just dont see it and I really dont know how. From all the floaters that he threw up (that were insanely stupid throws) and our elite WRs came down with them, to him squeaking out of pressure to throw up a prayer, to the fricken miracle game, to landing in a situation where Pat Shurmur was your OC and so on. There was no true talent there. If there was, he would have probably been a somewhat successful starter a lot sooner than last year. He's been in this league for 7 years. Do SOMETHING other than your miracle year to convince me otherwise. Yeah sure, it was a great year and I loved every second of it but my goodness, I could tell you that he was far from the answer in any way, shape or form.

I dont mean or want to come across combative but I'm beyond sick of hearing the Keenum garbage, the chemistry, the record, etc. He sucks. And he is about to go back to being a career backup very soon. Simple as that. There is no arguing it. Cousins was our best bet. Bradford is out of the league, Teddy couldnt at least show a glimpse of something in a week 17 mop up game at home (and is now back in the same position once again....a FA and nobody has a clue if he could even do anything with any team), Keenum is.....Keenum, a career backup, and we were sitting at 30th, so far out of the rookie QB picture that we'd have to mortgage our future on a trade to even land one.

Side note: When KC traded up from 27 to 10 to get Mahomes, they gave up 2 first round picks and a 3rd round pick. We would be going from 30 all the way up to 10 and that would be to just land Rosen (who isnt even in the same country talent wise as Mahomes). Imagine what we'd have to give up to get to 7th, 3rd or even 1st. Might as well not even attend the draft the next few years.

Cliff wrote: ↑Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:22 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:24 pm

Well yeah I'd be all for that. But remember half the board wishing he was still our starter mid season.....that is what I'm referring to. I continued to say he's been awful in Denver and guys tried to argue that. The Broncos had such little confidence in him that they are about to eat $10 million in dead money and brought in Joe fricken Flacco. Granted, John Elway is absolutely clueless but still, this says a lot about Case Keenum being a legit or even decent starting QB in this league.

The team Case went to had 1 more win than they did they year before. The team Cousins went to had 5 less wins than the year before so as far as impact to the team goes, I give Case the edge. Cousins did look better doing it though.

The situation matters but we've gone down that rabbit hole. In the end this team would still probably have won 8 games with Case at the helm (keeping in mind the teams they beat were nearly all bad teams anyway ...). Even if they won less, who cares in retrospect? A lot of people wanted Case to stay not because he's "the future" necessarily but neither is Cousins. Now that he's on the team they'll stop trying to improve the position.

They could have had a round 1 QB on the bench last season behind Keenum and gearing him up to start this season. Or maybe Keenum would have kept up the chemistry he had with the Vikings.

Just to add to this, the Redskins with Alex Smith and then guys signed off the street won just as many games this year as they did with Cousins.

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:12 pmNo offense Cliff, but the whole "Case had chemistry with this team" thing is garbage. Who did he have chemistry with?? Thielen and Diggs??! If you dont somehow have chemistry with arguably the best WR duo in the NFL, then you shouldnt be in the NFL.

I think that the way in which people work together and get along matters tremendously in anything in life wherein teamwork is involved. We'll just have to agree to disagree if you don't.

Both Diggs and Thielen's numbers escalated drastically with Cousins at QB. So if anything, they had better chemistry with Cousins than Keenum. Diggs numbers this year shattered his year with Case in almost all aspects. Thielen was literally on pace to break a how many year old record of straight 100 yard games? So who else did he have chemistry with over what Cousins had with any of these guys?? The RBs? Doubtful. The OL? Well Case actually had two serviceable guards last year and Cousins had two trash cans. The defense? Has nothing to do with who is playing QB in this situation.

So did Defilippo's pass heavy scheme cause huge problems with the offense or not? Either Defilppo was a genius who helped Cousins gel even better or his pass-happy game planning helped lose games while padding stats?

Other than coaching staff the Vikings roster remains mostly unchanged. Considering the Vikings have 5 less wins and missed the playoffs Kirk Cousins' extra 1.4 QB rating doesn't impress me. His extra 2.5 completion percentage doesn't impress me.

I will tell you who he had chemistry with.....Pat Shurmur. And Pat Shurmur is now gone.

That's one more person than Kirk Cousins has had chemistry with. His best record was 10-6 and 1 and done in the playoffs.

So if we stuck with Case, given the schedule we had this year and the dud of an OC we had, I can just about guarantee we wouldnt have anywhere near the same record. It would have been much worse. You're saying Case would have had the same amount of wins roughly.....we played some of the same teams this year. Case was blown out by the Jets, they blew out Arizona SOLELY because their defense went off and RBs played well (Case actually played pretty poor that game), got beat by SF and got smoked by the Raiders (and he nearly lost to them BOTH times. And even though we didnt play them, I guarantee we beat them with Cousins). Those are the 4 worst teams in the NFL this year. Literally, they have the first 4 picks of the draft. And he went 1-3 against them. Possibly 0-4 if his defense and RBs didnt carry him in the Arizona game. So I dont know how ANYONE can sit there and say he would have had the same record with us when he couldnt beat 3 of the 4 worst teams in the entire NFL. Cousins went 3-0 vs. those teams.

I don't know why you would feel confident enough to think Case wouldn't have put "anywhere near" the same record. Case didn't play anybody by himself just like Cousins didn't. If you think that the Broncos had roughly the same quality roster as the Vikings that's your right. I think Case went to a worse team and it slightly improved. Cousins went to a better team and it tanked - it looked *just like* all of his seasons with the Redskins.

There is literally no comparison when it comes to Cousins vs. Case. Case has zero edge. There is a reason Case is no longer in Denvers plan after 1 year.

Case took a team to 13 wins and the NFCC. So, Case at least has that edge

Of course there's a reason. Case isn't the kind of QB that can come in and lift a team up. He wasn't going to make the Broncos more than they were. What do you think their record is with Cousins? Do you think they make the playoffs if only he was on the team?

And what rookie QB were we possibly going to land that could take over Case's starting job this coming year?? We were picking 30th! Mayfield went 1st, Darnold went 3rd, Allen went 7th and Rosen went 10th. Jackson ended up going 32nd but he's literally a RB playing QB and would be a complete waste for guys like Thielen and Diggs. Do you realize how much it would cost us future wise to move from 30th to even 10th to take Rosen??! This is my whole point. There was no better option than Cousins. And if we stuck with Case, in turn, we would have been sitting here with our cranks in our hand fishing for another QB this offseason because Case sucked A$$ this year. And 99.9% of this board would be saying...."Spielman is an idiot for not pulling the trigger on Cousins and once again, we're without a QB this year".

I don't think anybody would be bitter at all about it. You know what I think the board would be saying? "Man, Case sucks, but at least we didn't drop all that money like the idiot Jets did on Cousins - did you see how much they sucked this year?"

Because guess what? If Cousins didn't make it to the playoffs with the Vikings he sure as hell wasn't doing it with the Jets or Broncos.

And I guess my other thing is that there was literally so much luck behind Keenums year last year and some fans just dont see it and I really dont know how. From all the floaters that he threw up (that were insanely stupid throws) and our elite WRs came down with them, to him squeaking out of pressure to throw up a prayer, to the fricken miracle game, to landing in a situation where Pat Shurmur was your OC and so on. There was no true talent there. If there was, he would have probably been a somewhat successful starter a lot sooner than last year. He's been in this league for 7 years. Do SOMETHING other than your miracle year to convince me otherwise. Yeah sure, it was a great year and I loved every second of it but my goodness, I could tell you that he was far from the answer in any way, shape or form.

Completely terrible garbage QBs don't help get a team to 13 wins in a season and the NFCC. He is every bit of average talent wise.

How was he going to get a chance to "prove he was any better" after his miracle year? He broke out and the team dumped him! He then went to a terrible *terrible* team.

I dont mean or want to come across combative but I'm beyond sick of hearing the Keenum garbage, the chemistry, the record, etc. He sucks. And he is about to go back to being a career backup very soon. Simple as that. There is no arguing it. Cousins was our best bet. Bradford is out of the league, Teddy couldnt at least show a glimpse of something in a week 17 mop up game at home (and is now back in the same position once again....a FA and nobody has a clue if he could even do anything with any team), Keenum is.....Keenum, a career backup, and we were sitting at 30th, so far out of the rookie QB picture that we'd have to mortgage our future on a trade to even land one.

I'm not trying to say Keenum is the best QB in the world. Just that keeping him would have hurt the team less in retrospect.

I agree, it is super unfortunate that the Vikings were (once again!) in a position to have to scurry to get the "best available option" at QB. They ended up making a bad position worse.

Side note: When KC traded up from 27 to 10 to get Mahomes, they gave up 2 first round picks and a 3rd round pick. We would be going from 30 all the way up to 10 and that would be to just land Rosen (who isnt even in the same country talent wise as Mahomes). Imagine what we'd have to give up to get to 7th, 3rd or even 1st. Might as well not even attend the draft the next few years.

Really they only gave up a 1st and 3rd. They got a 1st in return (and used it on Mahomes). Considering we traded a 1st for freaking Bradford is it really so rough to believe they could trade up for a rookie with potential? Or even take one in the 2nd or 3rd? Realize the class is better this year and plan for that? Realizing you just went 13-3 with the QB you already had?

Cliff wrote: ↑Thu Feb 14, 2019 2:09 pm
I think that the way in which people work together and get along matters tremendously in anything in life wherein teamwork is involved. We'll just have to agree to disagree if you don't.

So you somehow think guys "got along better" with Case? According to what source.....

So did Defilippo's pass heavy scheme cause huge problems with the offense or not? Either Defilppo was a genius who helped Cousins gel even better or his pass-happy game planning helped lose games while padding stats?

Other than coaching staff the Vikings roster remains mostly unchanged. Considering the Vikings have 5 less wins and missed the playoffs Kirk Cousins' extra 1.4 QB rating doesn't impress me. His extra 2.5 completion percentage doesn't impress me.

Well any kind of pass heavy scheme is obviously going to be beneficial to the WRs no matter if it was good or bad for the offense. Especially when you have two WRs of that caliber. But it also put Cousins in terrible situations where the offense became predictable, it was easy to defend, it had zero run game and Cousins was passing behind an offense line that was horrible in pass protection 45 times a game. Cousins is just a better pure passer than Keenum and had a better connection with those players IMO. Especially Diggs.

It's not just "other than the coaching staff the roster remained unchanged". Losing Shurmur was a HUGE deal. A bigger deal than losing or gaining anyone on this roster. And the cherry on top would be having Mike Remmers and Tom Compton as guards compared to Joe Berger and Nick Easton. Those two things alone make it a lot bigger deal than many would think and it's something many fans dont realize.

That's one more person than Kirk Cousins has had chemistry with. His best record was 10-6 and 1 and done in the playoffs.

I dont care what Kirk Cousins record is. Keenum was a one and done if it wasnt for a miracle either. And also, never even sniffed the playoffs in his career outside of last year. Look at Keenum's career. Matt Stafford has been the biggest loser of all losers in this league but you would take Case Keenum over him? Not a chance.

I don't know why you would feel confident enough to think Case wouldn't have put "anywhere near" the same record. Case didn't play anybody by himself just like Cousins didn't. If you think that the Broncos had roughly the same quality roster as the Vikings that's your right. I think Case went to a worse team and it slightly improved. Cousins went to a better team and it tanked - it looked *just like* all of his seasons with the Redskins.

If the Broncos dont improve after Trevor Siemien at QB, then there is problems. And look at his roster in the beginning of the year. Sanders, Thomas, Sutton, Lindsey, Freeman, decent OL, etc. Also they had the 11th total defense in the NFL. So let's not act like their rosters were drastically different. If Keenum had any sort of talent from a QB standpoint, I would hope he could at least beat the Raiders, 49ers, and Jets with what he had. He couldnt even do that.

Case took a team to 13 wins and the NFCC. So, Case at least has that edge

Of course there's a reason. Case isn't the kind of QB that can come in and lift a team up. He wasn't going to make the Broncos more than they were. What do you think their record is with Cousins? Do you think they make the playoffs if only he was on the team?

I can guarantee you that Cousins beats the Jets, Raiders and 49ers. He did this year. Dude Case lost to 3 of the 4 WORST teams in the NFL. That is terrible. And his roster was plenty talent enough to beat those teams. So not only was he not going to beat the better teams we played, but who knows if he would even make it past those teams.

I don't think anybody would be bitter at all about it. You know what I think the board would be saying? "Man, Case sucks, but at least we didn't drop all that money like the idiot Jets did on Cousins - did you see how much they sucked this year?"

Because guess what? If Cousins didn't make it to the playoffs with the Vikings he sure as hell wasn't doing it with the Jets or Broncos.

The Jets are an overall BAD roster. The Broncos didnt have a bad roster by any means. So fans would be ok realizing Case sucks and that we have no QB once again this year? It's not like Cousins contract is crippling us and we are losing talent right and left and have no money to sign anyone. We are still in much better shape than some think.

Completely terrible garbage QBs don't help get a team to 13 wins in a season and the NFCC. He is every bit of average talent wise.

So Trent Dilfer wasnt garbage? Rex Grossman? Kerry Collins? I can keep going....

How was he going to get a chance to "prove he was any better" after his miracle year? He broke out and the team dumped him! He then went to a terrible *terrible* team.

Dude it kills me that you think the Broncos are a "terrible...terrible" team. Like what?? The Broncos had a top 15 roster talent wise heading into 2018 easily. Miller, Chubb, Lindsey, Freeman, Thomas, Sanders, Sutton, Harris Jr., Leary, Paradis, Simmons, Marshall, Peko....yeah. Far from a "terrible" team

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Thu Feb 14, 2019 4:02 pm

Cliff wrote: ↑Thu Feb 14, 2019 2:09 pm

Completely terrible garbage QBs don't help get a team to 13 wins in a season and the NFCC. He is every bit of average talent wise.

So Trent Dilfer wasnt garbage? Rex Grossman? Kerry Collins? I can keep going....

Trent Dilfer had a defense that might be the best in the history of the NFL. Grossman's defense was just a step below that. The Vikings defense wasn't even the best in the NFL last season. They were very good, but by no means on the same level as the 2006 Bears, who got a turnover on every 5th drive. I will say, we get a defense on those teams levels and we can maybe win it all with Cousins.

Collins was a 180 game starter and was not garbage. He also never won 13 games though, so there is that.

I'll respond to more later but wanted to respond specifically to the Broncos bit. The Broncos haven't had a good team since Manning left in 2015. They haven't made the playoffs since then. This is line of thinking is at the core of a lot of our disagreement. You're able to look at stats and scouting reports and see a "good team" in there somewhere because of all the talent. In my eyes every team has talent on the roster because it's the NFL.

I see a team that was held up by one of the best QBs of all time when their defense was at it's peak. The team collapsed as soon as Manning retired. If your last two seasons were 5-11, and 6-10, you're not a good team in my eyes. If not "terrible" then a stone's throw from it.

Do they have the talent to turn it around? Of course because technically every team does. Except the Browns. Even Belichick couldn't save them.

Cliff wrote: ↑Thu Feb 14, 2019 4:46 pm I'll respond to more later but wanted to respond specifically to the Broncos bit. The Broncos haven't had a good team since Manning left in 2015. They haven't made the playoffs since then. This is line of thinking is at the core of a lot of our disagreement. You're able to look at stats and scouting reports and see a "good team" in there somewhere because of all the talent. In my eyes every team has talent on the roster because it's the NFL.

I see a team that was held up by one of the best QBs of all time when their defense was at it's peak. The team collapsed as soon as Manning retired. If your last two seasons were 5-11, and 6-10, you're not a good team in my eyes. If not "terrible" then a stone's throw from it.

Do they have the talent to turn it around? Of course because technically every team does. Except the Browns. Even Belichick couldn't save them.

Cliff who have they had at QB since Manning left?! That is 95% of the reason they can’t go anywhere or make the playoffs for that matter. John Elway couldnt find a good QB if they slapped him in the face. That roster has enough talent on it to make some noise but they’ve literally started Brock Osweiller, Paxton Lynch, Trevor Siemien, Mark Sanchez and Case Keenum since Peyton Manning. I literally don’t think you could pick a worse crop of Quarterbacks if you tried. So throwing their record out there over the last few years proves nothing.

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Thu Feb 14, 2019 4:12 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Thu Feb 14, 2019 4:02 pm

So Trent Dilfer wasnt garbage? Rex Grossman? Kerry Collins? I can keep going....

Trent Dilfer had a defense that might be the best in the history of the NFL. Grossman's defense was just a step below that. The Vikings defense wasn't even the best in the NFL last season. They were very good, but by no means on the same level as the 2006 Bears, who got a turnover on every 5th drive. I will say, we get a defense on those teams levels and we can maybe win it all with Cousins.

Collins was a 180 game starter and was not garbage. He also never won 13 games though, so there is that.

But my point is, Case played with a defense that was arguably the best in the nfl at the time and an OC that was excellent and had balance in his system. That doesn’t mean he’s a good QB or could get the job done moving forward.

Also, when Case Keenum was on the Vikings he played 4 playoff teams that year. Cousins played 7 and played the Packers twice with Aaron Rodgers. That’s 9 legitimate games that were far from a walk in the park for Cousins. And 6 of those 9 games were on the road. Keenum had a cake walk of a schedule compared to Cousins. The strength of schedule was so far apart it’s not even funny. Our division was a dumpster fire last year. But guys expected Cousins to come in year 1 and repeat that success given who we had to play. It wasn’t realistic. And saying he’s a giant mistake after 1 year is an unfair judgement if you ask me.

Bottom line is, the two seasons aren’t really comparable. The much better OC Keenum has compared to Cousins, the much easier schedule Keenum had compared to Cousins, the much better OL Keenum had compared to Cousins, etc. Cousins will forever be a superior QB to Keenum. Keenum couldnt have asked for things to line up better for him and couldn’t have asked to have more luck on his side last year.

Either way, keeping Keenum over Cousins would have been a giant mistake IMO and we’d currently be trading for a Joe Flacco just like Denver did and quickly losing our window of opportunity with this team. Maybe Cousins will win a SB with this team, maybe he’ll come up just short, maybe he misses the playoffs again but I know at the end of this, I’ll go back and say I still give Kirk Cousins his deal any day of the week. Because it was our best run at winning a SB during that time and he was far and away the best option for us during the 2018 offseason.

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:38 pm Well the Ravens just traded Joe Flacco to the Broncos. Which goes to show how much confidence Denver has in Case Keenum which is none. This is why I continued to say that signing Cousins was easily our best option last year. Keenum cant be trusted and is a one year wonder. Simple as that. He's simply not a good starting QB. However, I dont think Flacco is good either but definitely better than Case. But I'm starting to think John Elway of all people, has no idea how to assess QBs. Guys think Spielman is bad....look at one of the best QBs to ever play....he doesnt have a clue.


Cant wait to hear the...."lets bring Case back" chants

I knew you'd jump all over this. I really think you're hatred of Keenum far outweighs anyone's of Cousins on here.

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:18 pm

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Thu Feb 14, 2019 4:12 pm

Trent Dilfer had a defense that might be the best in the history of the NFL. Grossman's defense was just a step below that. The Vikings defense wasn't even the best in the NFL last season. They were very good, but by no means on the same level as the 2006 Bears, who got a turnover on every 5th drive. I will say, we get a defense on those teams levels and we can maybe win it all with Cousins.

Collins was a 180 game starter and was not garbage. He also never won 13 games though, so there is that.

But my point is, Case played with a defense that was arguably the best in the nfl at the time and an OC that was excellent and had balance in his system. That doesn’t mean he’s a good QB or could get the job done moving forward.

Also, when Case Keenum was on the Vikings he played 4 playoff teams that year. Cousins played 7 and played the Packers twice with Aaron Rodgers. That’s 9 legitimate games that were far from a walk in the park for Cousins. And 6 of those 9 games were on the road. Keenum had a cake walk of a schedule compared to Cousins. The strength of schedule was so far apart it’s not even funny. Our division was a dumpster fire last year. But guys expected Cousins to come in year 1 and repeat that success given who we had to play. It wasn’t realistic. And saying he’s a giant mistake after 1 year is an unfair judgement if you ask me.

Bottom line is, the two seasons aren’t really comparable. The much better OC Keenum has compared to Cousins, the much easier schedule Keenum had compared to Cousins, the much better OL Keenum had compared to Cousins, etc. Cousins will forever be a superior QB to Keenum. Keenum couldnt have asked for things to line up better for him and couldn’t have asked to have more luck on his side last year.

Honestly, you and Cliff could both be right. Case might have won more games with his ability to scramble and chemistry with the players. He might also have had the same year here as he did in Denver, although I doubt it since this is a much better team than Denver's. I do agree with you that Case was clearly not the answer long term. The problem is, neither is Cousins, and Cousins cost a lot more.

Either way, keeping Keenum over Cousins would have been a giant mistake IMO and we’d currently be trading for a Joe Flacco just like Denver did and quickly losing our window of opportunity with this team. Maybe Cousins will win a SB with this team, maybe he’ll come up just short, maybe he misses the playoffs again but I know at the end of this, I’ll go back and say I still give Kirk Cousins his deal any day of the week. Because it was our best run at winning a SB during that time and he was far and away the best option for us during the 2018 offseason.

What you are essentially saying here is that the results of the signing are irrelevant to it being a good decision to sign him. That the team could regress in part because of Cousins contract, miss the playoffs every year he is here, and it still would have been a good idea. I think your point is that with Cousins, we are least guaranteed capable QB play, and I would agree that we would. I don't ever see Cousins having the kind of year statistically Case had this year.

For me though, that isn't good enough, and I would give up a couple of years of capable quarterbacking for the chance at greatness, since greatness at QB is what it takes to win it all the vast majority of the time. Plus, the times it hasn't taken greatness at QB, it has required elite play at nearly every other position to overcome a mediocre QB play. Something that will be incredibly difficult to accomplish if we have to let go of good players, because we can't afford to keep them due in large part to the QB's contract.

VikeFanInEagleLand wrote: ↑Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:21 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:38 pm Well the Ravens just traded Joe Flacco to the Broncos. Which goes to show how much confidence Denver has in Case Keenum which is none. This is why I continued to say that signing Cousins was easily our best option last year. Keenum cant be trusted and is a one year wonder. Simple as that. He's simply not a good starting QB. However, I dont think Flacco is good either but definitely better than Case. But I'm starting to think John Elway of all people, has no idea how to assess QBs. Guys think Spielman is bad....look at one of the best QBs to ever play....he doesnt have a clue.


Cant wait to hear the...."lets bring Case back" chants

I knew you'd jump all over this. I really think you're hatred of Keenum far outweighs anyone's of Cousins on here.

I don't think he hates Keenum. I think he believes that Keenum being a flop in Denver validates the signing of Cousins, when in reality, it makes the signing worse. After all, if a bad QB like Keenum can win on this team, it makes Cousins only winning 8 games that much worse.

Here's the thing.... there will always be those that rate the QB position based on ALL those things that they look for at the combines. And if they don't have THOSE things, when they succeed, it MUST be a fluke. The point that is being missed here is that I don't think anyone on here believes that Keenum is a GREAT QB. What we are saying is that the RESULT (Wins & Losses, because isn't that what it's all about) wouldn't have been any worse with Keenum than it was with Cousins but at a much lesser cost. So non-combine tools guy like Keenum has a good year and it's pure luck....he sucks....and now it's been proven in Denver. But Cousins, the strong armed accurate QB fails, and there's always excuses for why. Newsflash: A QB like Keenum what can read a defense and plays on a team where receivers get open, will succeed. A QB like Cousins, that can't read a defense, and panics when the pressure gets ti him while he holds the ball trying to locate someone after the priamary receiver is covered, will fail.