Vikings Message Board.Com

O-line is an issue and maybe one all season. We cant run the ball and thats bad offense. Our guards are a liability and has been one all season. Kirk needs to step up into the pocket more. Thats the cause of a lot of these strip sacks.

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Fri Sep 28, 2018 10:01 am Philly is going to be tough but I see us beating them. Especially if this offense continues to play like this. Philly's offense is nowhere near comparable to the Rams. Philly is 19th in total offense right now. Dont have much of a running game. Wentz is back but didnt look so hot against one of the worst defenses of the past 5 years in Indy.

You really think so? I mean, the Vikings defense at home couldn't stop the Bills offense, and Philly's offense ran over the Vikings in last year's championship game like it was a bug on the road. The Bills are close to dead last in offense this year, and that includes the results from their win over the Vikings.

I will be shocked if the Vikings beat the Eagles on the road at this point. Mostly, that is because I don't see Zimmer changing anything with the defense. He will see this is a player execution issue rather than a scheme issue. The evidence is mounting that it is a scheme problem, but I think it is going to be another 2-3 games before Zimmer has to concede that. He's had a lot of success with defense for a long time, and when someone has a track record like that, it is usually very hard for them to admit that its been figured out. But after another 2 or 3 more stinkers on defense, Zimmer is going to have to take a step back.

On the bright side, the bleeding appears to have stopped on special teams, and the offense looks to be effective, even if it has some potentially fatal flaws in the offensive line and Cousin's fumbles. I think as the season goes on, the offense will carry the team to a few wins even as the defense struggles to get things figured out. At this point, the hope I have is that offense can carry the defense while the defense figures it out, and the team can get enough wins to make the playoffs, at which point the defense will have made the necessary adjustments and the team overall can still compete for something significant this year.

I just don't see those defensive adjustments happening for a few games yet, unfortunately, and I think Philly is going to be a tall order as a result.

VikingLord wrote: ↑Fri Sep 28, 2018 1:07 pm You really think so? I mean, the Vikings defense at home couldn't stop the Bills offense, and Philly's offense ran over the Vikings in last year's championship game like it was a bug on the road. The Bills are close to dead last in offense this year, and that includes the results from their win over the Vikings.

I will be shocked if the Vikings beat the Eagles on the road at this point. Mostly, that is because I don't see Zimmer changing anything with the defense. He will see this is a player execution issue rather than a scheme issue. The evidence is mounting that it is a scheme problem, but I think it is going to be another 2-3 games before Zimmer has to concede that. He's had a lot of success with defense for a long time, and when someone has a track record like that, it is usually very hard for them to admit that its been figured out. But after another 2 or 3 more stinkers on defense, Zimmer is going to have to take a step back.

On the bright side, the bleeding appears to have stopped on special teams, and the offense looks to be effective, even if it has some potentially fatal flaws in the offensive line and Cousin's fumbles. I think as the season goes on, the offense will carry the team to a few wins even as the defense struggles to get things figured out. At this point, the hope I have is that offense can carry the defense while the defense figures it out, and the team can get enough wins to make the playoffs, at which point the defense will have made the necessary adjustments and the team overall can still compete for something significant this year.

I just don't see those defensive adjustments happening for a few games yet, unfortunately, and I think Philly is going to be a tall order as a result.

Well first, this defense DID stop Buffalo more often than not. I've explained this a million times but check out the numbers and what the bills did on offense. Off of our two turnovers alone, they only had to travel 29 yards to score 10 points. And we had 30 yards in penalties on the first drive. They had 44 non penalty yards on that drive. So all in all, there is a whopping 73 yards the Bills had to travel to score 17 points!! So again, I repeat, the Buffalo Bills did not tear up this defense. 73 yards to score 17 points is not tearing anyone up. It came down to dumb penalties and Riley Reiff that was the cause of that debacle

The Rams are 5 times the team Philly is right now and we just ran toe to toe with them. No less Cousins has seen this defense a lot over the past few years.

Courtney Cronin
@CourtneyRCronin
29m
Vikings O-Line surrendered 29 pressures (3 sacks, 3 hits, 23 hurries) for a 2nd straight week, per PFF. Aaron Donald made Tom Compton's night living hell. The LG surrendered 7 pressures, including 2 sacks, and was given a 7.1 pass blocking grade. Never seen a number that low.


Courtney Cronin
@CourtneyRCronin
With Pat Elflein's return at center, Mike Zimmer says he thinks the offensive line is set for now.
10:20 AM - 28 Sep 2018

halfgiz wrote: ↑Fri Sep 28, 2018 2:02 pmCourtney Cronin
@CourtneyRCronin
With Pat Elflein's return at center, Mike Zimmer says he thinks the offensive line is set for now.
10:20 AM - 28 Sep 2018

I have to admit, the offense played well and I was seriously worried Cousins wouldn't survive this game behind our OL. But he thrived. And maybe we found a 3rd WR in Robinson.

The big problem this year has been a lack of continuity. Special teams lets the team down in GB, Defense lets the team down in LA, Offense lets the team down against Buffalo...

Despite having guys here for several years, the Vikings are a very young team. I don't remember where exactly but I'm pretty sure top 5 with most guys under 30. That might be a factor. But the bottom line is this group isn't playing as a team and that's very different from last year. A new QB, OC, and no Everson doesn't help in this respect but someone in the next 10 days needs to step up and whip this team into shape.

halfgiz wrote: ↑Fri Sep 28, 2018 2:02 pm Courtney Cronin
@CourtneyRCronin
29m
Vikings O-Line surrendered 29 pressures (3 sacks, 3 hits, 23 hurries) for a 2nd straight week, per PFF. Aaron Donald made Tom Compton's night living hell. The LG surrendered 7 pressures, including 2 sacks, and was given a 7.1 pass blocking grade. Never seen a number that low.


Courtney Cronin
@CourtneyRCronin
With Pat Elflein's return at center, Mike Zimmer says he thinks the offensive line is set for now.
10:20 AM - 28 Sep 2018

I think Zim is an excellent judge of talent but I'm starting to wonder if he can see talent on an offensive line. Yeah our OL is shaky and I think he realizes that but my question is.......

Zim, why is Brian O'Neill not in your starting lineup?!! Many take PFF with a grain of salt but he is currently the #26 OT in the NFL according to them. Rashod Hill is 53rd.

Please read:

His performance also drew the attention of the staff of Pro Football Focus, which rated him the third-best rookie lineman so far this season with a grade of 67.3.

O’Neill’s debut earned him a 68.7 grade from Pro Football Focus, which was 17 points higher than Hill’s grade in that game.

The Pitt product finds himself in good company in the Pro Football Focus rookie ranking, as the only two linemen who placed ahead of him are Will Hernandez and Mike McGlinchey, the 34th and ninth overall picks in the 2018 NFL draft. He also placed ahead of two first-round picks in Quenton Nelson and Frank Ragnow, who went sixth overall and 20th overall, respectively.

Like come on!! What has Rashod Hill done to keep his job. And I dont want to hear the "strength" argument because I'd take a weaker guy with athleticism and quick feet over a slow guy thats strong. I honestly cannot recall any pressures O'Neill gave up during the Buffalo or GB game.

And like I said before, I'd rather have O'Neill at LT. Cousins has been strip sacked 3 times this year, been sacked on his blind side often and it has cost us games. Not because of Cousins but the fact that it's his blind side and doesnt see it coming. And what is Reiff getting beat with? Wide rushes because he doesnt have the feet to get out there fast enough. O'NEILL DOES. Put Reiff on at RT where he played mostly in Detroit. At least Cousins can see guys coming if he gets burned. Philly's wide 9 defense worries me with Reiff. He's slow getting out there and it could cost us or kill our QB.

I hate how stubborn Zim can be sometimes with some of these guys. Start the best players. I'm not the coach but I can tell you O'Neill is better than Hill and at this rate, better than Reiff. Get him on the field!

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Fri Sep 28, 2018 2:47 pm And like I said before, I'd rather have O'Neill at LT. Cousins has been strip sacked 3 times this year, been sacked on his blind side often and it has cost us games. Not because of Cousins but the fact that it's his blind side and doesnt see it coming. And what is Reiff getting beat with? Wide rushes because he doesnt have the feet to get out there fast enough. O'NEILL DOES. Put Reiff on at RT where he played mostly in Detroit. At least Cousins can see guys coming if he gets burned. Philly's wide 9 defense worries me with Reiff. He's slow getting out there and it could cost us or kill our QB.

I hate how stubborn Zim can be sometimes with some of these guys. Start the best players. I'm not the coach but I can tell you O'Neill is better than Hill and at this rate, better than Reiff. Get him on the field!

Your point about getting Cousins killed is a good one.

It kind of ticked me off last night when Troy Aikman went off on Cousins "not stepping up in the pocket," or "feeling the pressure." My God, the guy has dropped back to pass nearly 120 times the past two games, and he's been pressured on about half his dropbacks. After 55 pass attempts and unimaginable pressure, he finally made a mistake. Nobody -- not Aaron Rodgers, not Tom Brady, not Drew Brees -- can play mistake-free football under those conditions. The Minneosta Vikings were only in last night's game because of Kirk Cousins. The guy is on pace for 756 passing attempts -- the NFL record is 727. "Most passing attempts, season" is NOT a record I want our quarterback to own. He won't survive the season at this pace.

We have GOT to get this O-line fixed. We need a running game. We need to not allow 29 freaking pressures.

It’s amazing what difference a year makes. Last year I was quite pleased with our running game and that was after losing Dalvin for the entire year!

Cousins has to do a better job climbing the pocket. As scary as that can be with the protection our guards give, he cannot drop back and stay there. He is standing at the exact spot both De's aim for. Great QBs step up and help their tackles. He needs to do so more. The last sack was on him and Reiff as the time was there if he steps up.

Our Oline is abysmal. However, most of the pressures are coming because we cannot run the ball. As a result, we are throwing it at an ungodly rate. Cousins is worth the money alone because of how many attempts he is being asked to make.

I'm not sure how anyone in the front office could have thought this oline was ok to go into the season with.

Purple Domination wrote: ↑Fri Sep 28, 2018 4:00 pm It’s amazing what difference a year makes. Last year I was quite pleased with our running game and that was after losing Dalvin for the entire year!

But the thing is, I don’t know how anyone can say they aren’t pleased with the run game because we aren’t running the ball!! I keep saying that In the last 3 games, we were down 20-7 (went into pass mode), down all game to buffalo (almost broke the record for least rushing attempts in a game) and then get down by two possessions last night and go into pass mode. We’re putting ourselves in situations where we’re down by two scores and need to abandon the run to catch up. We have a running game. No doubt in my mind. These two backs are too good to not be successful. It’s more along the lines of we aren’t able to run because of the situations we’re putting ourselves in. If we can get out of having these lapses early in the game whether it’s on O or D, we can run all game. The last 3 weeks we haven’t been able to do that

This feels really weird to say given that we've had one of the top D's the last few years : We need to figure
out how to run the ball too keep the D rested and off the field. I always thought the D was overrated because
they don't get many turnovers or sacks. I was looking at the stats for the 69 team and saw they had 30 interceptions, 17 fumble recoveries and 49 sacks. Now that's ELITE !

Granted the league has changed a lot since then but it's was still quite impressive.

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Fri Sep 28, 2018 4:48 pm But the thing is, I don’t know how anyone can say they aren’t pleased with the run game because we aren’t running the ball!! I keep saying that In the last 3 games, we were down 20-7 (went into pass mode), down all game to buffalo (almost broke the record for least rushing attempts in a game) and then get down by two possessions last night and go into pass mode. We’re putting ourselves in situations where we’re down by two scores and need to abandon the run to catch up. We have a running game. No doubt in my mind. These two backs are too good to not be successful. It’s more along the lines of we aren’t able to run because of the situations we’re putting ourselves in. If we can get out of having these lapses early in the game whether it’s on O or D, we can run all game. The last 3 weeks we haven’t been able to do that

I don't think we are watching the same games. The Vikings Oline does not win the battle to establish the LOS on running plays. Routinely , Players from the other team are driving our guys backward or at best stalemating them at the current LOS. Looking at some of runs Cook made last night, may give you hope from a statistical analysis, however, if you watched the game, you would see that he was cutting in the backfield to avoid tackles. On 2 of our first 8 runs, our QB got tackled as he was handing the ball off. To label our run game problems as a case of just not running the ball enough is being disingenuous. We aren't running the ball because it is a liability that puts any drive at risk of stalling.

Running up the middle every first down doesn't help either.

YikesVikes wrote: ↑Fri Sep 28, 2018 5:26 pm I don't think we are watching the same games. The Vikings Oline does not win the battle to establish the LOS on running plays. Routinely , Players from the other team are driving our guys backward or at best stalemating them at the current LOS. Looking at some of runs Cook made last night, may give you hope from a statistical analysis, however, if you watched the game, you would see that he was cutting in the backfield to avoid tackles. On 2 of our first 8 runs, our QB got tackled as he was handing the ball off. To label our run game problems as a case of just not running the ball enough is being disingenuous. We aren't running the ball because it is a liability that puts any drive at risk of stalling.

Hit the nail on the head. Not buying the whole we havent ran it enough to see results arguement, if we did more with the attemps given it would result in more touches as you said.