Vikings Message Board.Com

Mothman wrote:The hype machine is really rolling for these coaches. Expectations are clearly sky high.

It's hard to not get excited. The last couple of coaches have been seen as rash, illogical, and poor decisions from the get-go from a large majority of the fan base. Especially when you factor in the coordinator selection. Turner is a sexy hire. He's been a very successful coordinator. He's proven. There's obviously reason for excitement. Zimmer is essentially the anti-Frazier, whose calm on-field (and off-field) demeanor clearly bothered a lot of fans. I'm just nervous because Singletary was a fiery coach and we all remember how that turned out. So I'm more cautiously optimistic, especially given his head coaching inexperience. He wouldn't be the first skilled, respected coordinator to fail at HC.

I agree that there's a big problem with the middle of this defense. Unless we get a guy like Nix, I don't see how we can make a switch to a 3-4 (with more added pieces needed). Regardless, our "NT" position is a current liability. We have an open competition at MLB with no real star. Depending on what happens with Erin, we have a big hole at LB outside Greenway (even with Greenway in the mix). I'm not confident with any LB on our roster. We also have a mammoth hole at corner outside of Rhodes, in addition to a lack of quality depth at the position. Depending on Griffen, we could have a lot of issues at DE (in addition to depth there). Make no mistake, Griffen's negotiations will be difficult. He knows the Position the Vikings are in; he holds a lot of leverage. And other than maybe Carlson, Spielman doesn't often grossly overpay market value (letting Edwards, Rice walk, not getting into a bidding war for Housh, etc.). There's a real concern for me that Griffen tests the market.

Spielman has a big test this offseason again. Hopefully added talent in the form of draft and FA and Zimmer magic can help turn this defense around, because I'm about as excited/confident in our new DC as I was with Alan Williams.

VikingPaul73 wrote: First off, let me say I am happy with the hires and cautiously optimistic about the future. I've always liked Turner as an OC and I like what I've read about Zimmer and his results as a DC are indisbutable.

But don't you think we need to temper our enthusiasm a bit here? I'm looking forward to the offseason, but there is currently a glaring lack of talent on the defensive side and we still have a mess at the QB position. Zimmer is being touted as some sort of defensive mesiah that will turn Rhodes into Sherman and Sanford into Ronnie Lott. I just don't think it will happen that quickly. And although his credentials as a DC are impeccable, we don't know how he will perform as a HC.

Don't get me wrong, as I said I am cautiously optimisitc and it would seem the ship is at least (FINALLY) pointed in the right direction, but I think we're getting ahead of ourselves with expectations of how quickly this thing will get turned around.

I think he will definitely turn the team around, but needs some time. I think we'll definitely see an improvement the first year, but some of the posts I've seen online elsewhere make me think fans are expecting a Lombardi right away. He's a good coach but he needs time.

dead_poet wrote: It's hard to not get excited. The last couple of coaches have been seen as rash, illogical, and poor decisions from the get-go from a large majority of the fan base. Especially when you factor in the coordinator selection. Turner is a sexy hire. He's been a very successful coordinator. He's proven. There's obviously reason for excitement. Zimmer is essentially the anti-Frazier, whose calm on-field (and off-field) demeanor clearly bothered a lot of fans. I'm just nervous because Singletary was a fiery coach and we all remember how that turned out. So I'm more cautiously optimistic, especially given his head coaching inexperience. He wouldn't be the first skilled, respected coordinator to fail at HC.

I agree that there's a big problem with the middle of this defense. Unless we get a guy like Nix, I don't see how we can make a switch to a 3-4 (with more added pieces needed). Regardless, our "NT" position is a current liability. We have an open competition at MLB with no real star. Depending on what happens with Erin, we have a big hole at LB outside Greenway (even with Greenway in the mix). I'm not confident with any LB on our roster. We also have a mammoth hole at corner outside of Rhodes, in addition to a lack of quality depth at the position. Depending on Griffen, we could have a lot of issues at DE (in addition to depth there). Make no mistake, Griffen's negotiations will be difficult. He knows the Position the Vikings are in; he holds a lot of leverage. And other than maybe Carlson, Spielman doesn't often grossly overpay market value (letting Edwards, Rice walk, not getting into a bidding war for Housh, etc.). There's a real concern for me that Griffen tests the market.

I'm concerned about that and equally concerned that they'll sign him, expect him to hold down the right DE spot in place of Allen and that he won't be up to the task. He's had impressive moments in spot duty but I think it's worth wondering how he'll fare as a full-time DE, especially if he's going up against left tackles most of the time, something he hasn't done much since being drafted.

Spielman has a big test this offseason again. Hopefully added talent in the form of draft and FA and Zimmer magic can help turn this defense around, because I'm about as excited/confident in our new DC as I was with Alan Williams.

He's not a "wow" choice but hopefully, he'll be good. The Vikes were fortunate Turner was available to become OC. Like you and Paul, I'm cautiously optimistic but I don't expect Zimmer to come in and transform the defense into an elite unit right away. He's a good DC but as your post illustrates, there's a lot of personnel work to be done there. If you look at his first season in Cincy, his defense didn't exactly take the league by storm. Sometimes it takes time to build an effective unit and Spielman will still have to provide Zimmer with the players to get the job done.

Turner's offense, like most, requires a good QB to really be effective. I wonder to what degree the new staff will be able to "coach up" Cassel, Ponder (assuming either is back) or a rookie QB.

The official end of the tampa-2 and the dink and dunk offense. I'm not a huge fan of emoticons but....

Maybe fans are being a little over enthusiastic about this but it's a hugely refreshing change. Also, for all the complaints about the negativity that was supposedly plaguing this forum, shouldn't people being overly positive for a change be a good thing? I loved the way Zimmer talked about winning the championship, the confetti falling, and handing Wilf the trophy. Now obviously that's getting way ahead of ourselves but the guy has a self-admitted chip on his shoulder and I really love the visual he painted. After a season like we had, I say let people go as nuts as they want. Reality can wait a few months.

S197 wrote:The official end of the tampa-2 and the dink and dunk offense. I'm not a huge fan of emoticons but....

Maybe fans are being a little over enthusiastic about this but it's a hugely refreshing change. Also, for all the complaints about the negativity that was supposedly plaguing this forum, shouldn't people being overly positive for a change be a good thing? I loved the way Zimmer talked about winning the championship, the confetti falling, and handing Wilf the trophy. Now obviously that's getting way ahead of ourselves but the guy has a self-admitted chip on his shoulder and I really love the visual he painted. After a season like we had, I say let people go as nuts as they want. Reality can wait a few months.

I'm not trying to stifle anybody. I'm just saying, the hype machine is really rolling when a Minnesota sports columnist is writing things like "Zimmer and Turner give the Vikings a coaching advantage on most gamedays this fall."

That just strikes me as over-the-top hype. There are a lot of good coaches in the NFL. Both Zimmer and Turner have proven their merit as coordinators but the latter hasn't exactly been a great head coach and the former has never been a head coach. Suggesting they give the Vikings a coaching advantage over most teams strikes me as a pretty big assumption based but hey, I hope it turns out to be true.

I think expectations depend (in part) on whether you think most of our problems stem from poor talent or poor coaching. Those of us who think we have pretty good talent now and have suffered primarily from poor coaching are going to have higher expectations for a quick turnaround. Those who think that lack of talent has been our primary problem will have lower expectations for a quick turnaround. I'm in the former camp; I think a mere change of coaching to proven competent coaches will bring a quick turnaround. I think we have been underachieving. I think a good coach might even be able to get Chris Cook to expend the tremendous effort of putting his hands up at the end of a pass play.

"Ok Chris, do exactly what you did last time except this time when the receiver puts his hands up you put your hands up too (!!) as if the ball is coming to the receiver."

The real question is for me is not whether we'll have a quick turnaround in 2014 because I'm pretty sure of that, but whether we'll be able to maintain it in subsequent years once the effect of mere change has worn off. That will be the true test of Zimmer.

The reason for optimism is two fold, one because the sky's the limit for a team coached by Zimmer and Turner. The upside is there, of course it needs to manifest and that may take a little bit of time. The second reason is much much more immediate and that's cutting the anchor / noose that was around our neck that was Leslie Frazier and the previous staff.

We're going to the super bowl next year. Just watch. We were just a playoff team a year ago. We are a QB away from being contenders. This season we were a COACH and QB away from being contenders. We have 1 now we need the latter.

King James wrote:We're going to the super bowl next year. Just watch. We were just a playoff team a year ago. We are a QB away from being contenders. This season we were a COACH and QB away from being contenders. We have 1 now we need the latter.

lol. I'll be watching.

King James wrote:We're going to the super bowl next year. Just watch. We were just a playoff team a year ago. We are a QB away from being contenders. This season we were a COACH and QB away from being contenders. We have 1 now we need the latter.

No, the Vikings were a QB and half of a defense away from being contenders in 2013.

We have LBs. Henderson and Marvin Mitchell are not starters. Bishop or Gerald Hodges should've been starting on the outside. Audie Cole or Mauti should've been the main starter on the Mike.

As for the DBs. We are only one corner away from having a stout defense. And maybe a safety too. We can address Defense in the FA.

Eli wrote: No, the Vikings were a QB and half of a defense away from being contenders in 2013.

I'd say that's more accurate.

Mondry and Webbfann, I don't think the reasoning behind the optimism is difficult to see. The reasons for it are obvious. My point was that when we reach the point where the mere presence of Zimmer and Turner will supposedly give the Vikings a coaching edge over most of their opponents, the optimism and hype may be spinning a bit out of control.

King James wrote:We have LBs. Henderson and Marvin Mitchell are not starters. Bishop or Gerald Hodges should've been starting on the outside. Audie Cole or Mauti should've been the main starter on the Mike.

As for the DBs. We are only one corner away from having a stout defense. And maybe a safety too. We can address Defense in the FA.

… and maybe a NT too, and, shoot, better add a DE once Jared walks… but other than that we're SOLID. Oh wait, we need a QB too…

Mothman wrote: I'd say that's more accurate.

Mondry and Webbfann, I don't think the reasoning behind the optimism is difficult to see. The reasons for it are obvious. My point was that when we reach the point where the mere presence of Zimmer and Turner will supposedly give the Vikings a coaching edge over most of their opponents, the optimism and hype may be spinning a bit out of control.

Well I think they give us a big advantage over their predecessors, and we were close in most games even under them. Hopefully the new crew will be able to make the adjustments necessary to pull those out. It should not be that difficult.

I Like Turner alot He is a proven winner . When with Dallas he had that offense winning back to back superbowls . Turner also made the Chargers offense the high power offense that it is today. What I most about Turner is the way he used Emmit Smith He should fit right in with Peterson.. His rout disigns for Josh Gordon made Weeden & campbell look good. lol