Vikings Message Board.Com

dead_poet wrote:I also wish people would stop questioning the rib thing. Last night Ben Tate played a week after cracking four ribs. Why can't this be a legit injury?

Not sure where you're going there. Are you saying that you feel Ponder's injury is real and no longer should be questioned? If so, why would you bring up an example of someone else who played just one week after cracking several ribs? I don't follow the logic.

I don't question the injury. I don't even think that Ponder was necessarily "benched" in favor of either Cassel or Freeman. The Vikings may have felt that the injury was still too tender for him to start in weeks six and seven.

Eli wrote: Not sure where you're going there. Are you saying that you feel Ponder's injury is real and no longer should be questioned? If so, why would you bring up an example of someone else who played just one week after cracking several ribs? I don't follow the logic.

I don't question the injury. I don't even think that Ponder was necessarily "benched" in favor of either Cassel or Freeman. The Vikings may have felt that the injury was still too tender for him to start in weeks six and seven.

People calling it his "injury" (essentially calling it bogus). Then they use the fact that he was cleared a week or two later as evidence that there was no such injury because nothing that was as severe as what was reported could possibly heal in that amount of time.

VikingsFanInCA wrote:I am not a QB. I am definitely not an NFL QB.

I could have at LEAST gotten that ball on a rainbow to fall in the end zone.

Pathetic.

I am thinking of getting a video of my 5'10" 160 pound friend throwing 50 yards and sending it to the Vikings, very pathetic.

VikingLord wrote:The attempt is pathetic, but in terms of arm strength, I think if a QB is in the position Ponder found himself in, arm strength is the least of his worries.

And as far as Manziel goes, that questionable arm strength is really hurting him this year, huh? I mean, Bama shut his noodle arm down, didn't they?

They didn't shut him down at all. Manziel helped bring them back in the game when they were down by a lot. I don't know how he does it but he just finds ways to make throws. With Manziel, all you can do is slow him down, which Bama did, but time expired as he began to rally again. I don't know if he will be this good in the NFL though.

dead_poet wrote: People calling it his "injury" (essentially calling it bogus). Then they use the fact that he was cleared a week or two later as evidence that there was no such injury because nothing that was as severe as what was reported could possibly heal in that amount of time.

I wasn't necessarily questioning his injury... I just don't know for sure. I'm just saying/guessing that if he really did have a rib injury, it could have played into a short throw.

King James wrote:
They didn't shut him down at all. Manziel helped bring them back in the game when they were down by a lot. I don't know how he does it but he just finds ways to make throws. With Manziel, all you can do is slow him down, which Bama did, but time expired as he began to rally again. I don't know if he will be this good in the NFL though.

I was being facetious. Demi makes frequent remarks about Manziel's arm strength that, as far as I can tell, have never been objectively justified anywhere. He also points out Manziel's size (as big as several QB's who have enjoyed a great deal of success as pros, including Fran Tarkenton and Drew Brees), arrest record (went so far as to post a mugshot), and a variety of other claims that I don't believe hold much water when one looks at Manziel's actual production on the football field. The dude lights it up against the best college football has to offer, and he's consistent.

So I totally agree with you that nobody has stopped him yet. I also don't know if he will be as good as a pro, but IMHO, you put a guy like Manziel under center with a back like AD behind him, and watch the fireworks. Defenses can barely contend with Manziel's potent ability to run or pass as it is. You add that to the threat AD poses, and you flip the defensive calculus on it's head. Manziel will most likely struggle at times like any rookie, but the Vikings could do a LOT worse in this upcoming draft than to take him if he's available.

On the topic of QB prospects, I really like the season Derek Carr is putting together. He's slipping under the radar a bit, although I don't think that will continue much longer with the way he's been playing. Carr *might* be available in the early part of Round 2, which means if the Vikings decide to use their first pick on a guy like Clowney or Barr, they could still get a guy who I think has the potential to be a true franchise QB as a pro. The following is from WalterFootball regarding Carr:

11/2/13: Carr has been tremendous in carrying Fresno State to an undefeated record midway through the 2013 season. He was clutch in the fourth quarter and overtime to push his team to wins over Rutgers and Boise State. The senior has been phenomenal in his decision-making while showing a strong arm with good field vision. This year, Carr has completed 69 percent of his passes for 2,574 yards with 25 touchdowns and four interceptions.

Not really defending ponder, but for those wondering if he's ever made this distance of a throw before, he has. In his rookie year vs Atlanta he throws one from about the 50 yard line to the back of the end zone.

Last play of this video

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kVVGRReRfh ... VVGRReRfhY

saint33 wrote:Not really defending ponder, but for those wondering if he's ever made this distance of a throw before, he has. In his rookie year vs Atlanta he throws one from about the 50 yard line to the back of the end zone.

Last play of this video

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kVVGRReRfh ... VVGRReRfhY

He's also done that this year and last year.

Watch the video of the hail mary. It's pretty obvious what happened. Instead of putting it up for grabs, he tried to place it in the front right corner of the end zone where the receiver was and there was only one defender. Obviously it was a lousy throw, but you're kidding yourself if you think he isn't capable of throwing 50 yards. He threw it 50ish in the air to Simpson in week 1 with what looked like not a lot of effort.

maembe wrote: He's also done that this year and last year.

Watch the video of the hail mary. It's pretty obvious what happened. Instead of putting it up for grabs, he tried to place it in the front right corner of the end zone where the receiver was and there was only one defender. Obviously it was a lousy throw, but you're kidding yourself if you think he isn't capable of throwing 50 yards. He threw it 50ish in the air to Simpson in week 1 with what looked like not a lot of effort.

Yeah, it looked like he just tried to aim or direct that "fail mary" too much and didn't make a good throw.

So, people are comforted by the thought that Ponder could have thrown it in the end zone but chose not to? On the last play of the game and the only shot to win, you want to throw it a few yards short (don't we all complain for throwing it short of the marker?) of the end zone with everyone bunched up in the area waiting to come out and tackle him after he might have caught it? Please. That's smarter than lobbing it up and hoping for a miracle catch or defensive pass interference? It's about giving your guys a chance. He didn't. Let's not kid ourselves. It was a bad throw and a worse idea.

MelanieMFunk wrote:So, people are comforted by the thought that Ponder could have thrown it in the end zone but chose not to? On the last play of the game and the only shot to win, you want to throw it a few yards short (don't we all complain for throwing it short of the marker?) of the end zone with everyone bunched up in the area waiting to come out and tackle him after he might have caught it? Please. That's smarter than lobbing it up and hoping for a miracle catch or defensive pass interference? It's about giving your guys a chance. He didn't. Let's not kid ourselves. It was a bad throw and a worse idea.

Some people are. Lets hope the Wilf's aren't. And that the are equally upset with the guy that keeps starting him.

MelanieMFunk wrote:So, people are comforted by the thought that Ponder could have thrown it in the end zone but chose not to? On the last play of the game and the only shot to win, you want to throw it a few yards short (don't we all complain for throwing it short of the marker?) of the end zone with everyone bunched up in the area waiting to come out and tackle him after he might have caught it? Please. That's smarter than lobbing it up and hoping for a miracle catch or defensive pass interference? It's about giving your guys a chance. He didn't. Let's not kid ourselves. It was a bad throw and a worse idea.

Thank you! I was just thinking the same thing lol. Had he completed it short we still lose by 4, so I don't know what's worse, the throw or the thought of throwing it short on purpose. That's like throwing check downs at your own 30 with under 30 seconds to go when you need a TD ... oh wait, he was doing that vs Cleveland. I'm glad one of his strengths was how smart he was.

Reignman wrote: I'm glad one of his strengths was how smart he was.

There's a difference between knowing what you're supposed to do and actually doing it. Everything I've read about him in meetings report that he's a whiz at the chalkboard and Xs and Os. Unfortunately that's never translated to the field and execution.

Jeffbleedspurple wrote: OOOhh! The pass play to Wright. I didn't know he actually threw the ball 45 yards though.

Wright was still in college. (I think you are thinking of last year vs. Detroit, maybe?)

Michael Jenkins? His first pass as a starter for 72 yards? Maybe?

You could be talking about another deep throw. I know there are so many of them. Gets confusing.

MelanieMFunk wrote: Wright was still in college. (I think you are thinking of last year vs. Detroit, maybe?)

Michael Jenkins? His first pass as a starter for 72 yards? Maybe?

You could be talking about another deep throw. I know there are so many of them. Gets confusing.

That pass to Jenkins did not travel 72 yards in the air though... it was under 50 yards in the air. Ponder can't throw it any longer than about 55 yards with any degree of consistency.