Vikings Message Board.Com

80 PurplePride 84 wrote: Because Tebow deserves to be laughed at.

Does RG3 too? making the sign of the cross, talking about his faith, hes a black conservative omg!

dead_poet wrote:Goessling does a nice job of packaging this mess with some historical perspective. Here's one line I felt was particularly appropriate:
He follows it up with this:

I guess it depends on what he means by "a quick fix". If he means a quick fix to their long term QB situation, it's possible but at this point in his career, his mechanics might need as much or more work than a rookie's mechanics. If he meant a quick fix this season then that seems very unlikely.

And I agree with his conclusion:

Well, I agree with the idea he expressed at the end, that the only way "off the island" is to set a course for the future with a plan to solve their QB quandary and a commitment to weather the squalls but if they were capable of that kind of commitment, Ponder would still be starting. After all, they spent the last season and a half developing him, they committed to him all offseason and then... bailed on him after 3 games this season.

After that showing last night, Freeman needs to study, practice and get a much, much better handle on the offense before he sees the field again. If the course they choose to chart is to commit to Freeman and see what he can do than I think letting him get truly prepared to take the reins is a much better course of action than starting him at QB next Sunday and watching the team get further demoralized as Green Bay blows them out because the simplified offense can't score a $#@*^% point again.

I realize how this will be received but I think going back to Ponder might actually be the best choice right now. He may be 0-3 but they were in position to win 2 of the 3 games he started this year and he's the only QB on the roster who hasn't been on the wrong end of a humiliating blowout loss this season. He's also the only one signed through next season. It's actually conceivable that he could serve as the best bridge to a new QB. He's been benched and he faces genuine competition for his job for the first time in his career. Maybe it's worth seeing how he responds to that. As I pointed out earlier today, of these 3 QBs, he actually has the best W/L record over the last 20 games or so.

Freeman is the physically superior QB and both he and Cassel are more experienced than Ponder but we've seen their lows and they're every bit as low as Ponder's worst, complete with missed opportunities, badly thrown passes, interceptions, etc.

I don't know what the best choice is but that's what I'd consider doing. It will probably sound like a crazy, repellant idea to most Vikes fans and maybe it IS crazy but Ponder's the young QB in this situation, the one with the least experience and consequently, the one who may still have more to of his game to reveal. Myabe we won't want to see it when it's revealed but I think perhaps that plan to get off the island should be: start Ponder. If he seizes his final opportunity to lead the team, great. Keep him and draft someone to compete for/inherit the job next year. If not, keep prepping Freeman and when he's actually ready, let him take over. If he seizes the opportunity, see if he can be signed to a reasonable deal and then draft a QB anyway (in other words, draft a QB no matter what).

I will now prepare for people to scoff at this idea.

Jim

Jim I agree, I have said it quite a bit in past posts, but I thought Ponder should play the year out. It was obvious to me that this team was not really going anywhere this year and I thought Frazier should ride Ponder to the end. Not because I think he's fantastic, but because I think we need to say, we did everything in our power to improve him and bring him to the top of his game. Baring that, if they decided to leave him behind I thought Cassel was the best start for us. His throws and mechanics are superior to Ponder and Freeman. His decision making is on par with them. Cassel is not our savior, but in my opinion he is the best QB on our team.

I think Freeman has lost it and really don't see him getting it back with us. Our O-line makes it impossible for a QB to get confident if he isn't to begin with. And our coaches cannot seem to coach any bad habits out of anyone.

Mothman wrote: I guess it depends on what he means by "a quick fix". If he means a quick fix to their long term QB situation, it's possible but at this point in his career, his mechanics might need as much or more work than a rookie's mechanics. If he meant a quick fix this season then that seems very unlikely.
Well, I agree with the idea he expressed at the end, that the only way "off the island" is to set a course for the future with a plan to solve their QB quandary and a commitment to weather the squalls but if they were capable of that kind of commitment, Ponder would still be starting. After all, they spent the last season and a half developing him, they committed to him all offseason and then... bailed on him after 3 games this season.

After that showing last night, Freeman needs to study, practice and get a much, much better handle on the offense before he sees the field again. If the course they choose to chart is to commit to Freeman and see what he can do than I think letting him get truly prepared to take the reins is a much better course of action than starting him at QB next Sunday and watching the team get further demoralized as Green Bay blows them out because the simplified offense can't score a $#@*^% point again.

I realize how this will be received but I think going back to Ponder might actually be the best choice right now. He may be 0-3 but they were in position to win 2 of the 3 games he started this year and he's the only QB on the roster who hasn't been on the wrong end of a humiliating blowout loss this season. He's also the only one signed through next season. It's actually conceivable that he could serve as the best bridge to a new QB. He's been benched and he faces genuine competition for his job for the first time in his career. Maybe it's worth seeing how he responds to that. As I pointed out earlier today, of these 3 QBs, he actually has the best W/L record over the last 20 games or so.

Freeman is the physically superior QB and both he and Cassel are more experienced than Ponder but we've seen their lows and they're every bit as low as Ponder's worst, complete with missed opportunities, badly thrown passes, interceptions, etc.

I don't know what the best choice is but that's what I'd consider doing. It will probably sound like a crazy, repellant idea to most Vikes fans and maybe it IS crazy but Ponder's the young QB in this situation, the one with the least experience and consequently, the one who may still have more to of his game to reveal. Myabe we won't want to see it when it's revealed but I think perhaps that plan to get off the island should be: start Ponder. If he seizes his final opportunity to lead the team, great. Keep him and draft someone to compete for/inherit the job next year. If not, keep prepping Freeman and when he's actually ready, let him take over. If he seizes the opportunity, see if he can be signed to a reasonable deal and then draft a QB anyway (in other words, draft a QB no matter what).

I will now prepare for people to scoff at this idea.

Jim

Solid Post. It'll get blasted here I suppose, but it seems very reasonable to me. I hope they give Freeman a week or two more and if he continues to look so terrible I'd like to see Ponder get another shot.

Mothman wrote:I guess it depends on what he means by "a quick fix". If he means a quick fix to their long term QB situation, it's possible but at this point in his career, his mechanics might need as much or more work than a rookie's mechanics. If he meant a quick fix this season then that seems very unlikely.

I think he defines "quick fix" by "winning now." Clearly the team saw Freeman as an upgrade from their current stable of football-throwers (they don't deserve to be called quarterbacks until proven otherwise).

Well, I agree with the idea he expressed at the end, that the only way "off the island" is to set a course for the future with a plan to solve their QB quandary and a commitment to weather the squalls but if they were capable of that kind of commitment, Ponder would still be starting. After all, they spent the last season and a half developing him, they committed to him all offseason and then... bailed on him after 3 games this season.

I think they were looking for improvement, and saw regression. It's pretty clear their commitment to Ponder has ended at 29 starts. Spielman evidently has seen all he needs to see to make a proper evaluation.

After that showing last night, Freeman needs to study, practice and get a much, much better handle on the offense before he sees the field again. If the course they choose to chart is to commit to Freeman and see what he can do than I think letting him get truly prepared to take the reins is a much better course of action than starting him at QB next Sunday and watching the team get further demoralized as Green Bay blows them out because the simplified offense can't score a $#@*^% point again.

Probably. However going back to Ponder is akin to admitting you made a mistake, and I don't see the FO or coaching staff admitting that so publicly and profoundly when everybody is likely in hot water enough as it is.

I realize how this will be received but I think going back to Ponder might actually be the best choice right now. He may be 0-3 but they were in position to win 2 of the 3 games he started this year and he's the only QB on the roster who hasn't been on the wrong end of a humiliating blowout loss this season.

Ha! Is that all it takes to be a starting football-thrower for the Vikings? Let me grab my helmet. FWIW, I also think Ponder gives them their best chance to win (which is, to say, about a 22% chance as opposed to a Cassel 21.9 percent chance and Freeman an 11%).

He's also the only one signed through next season. It's actually conceivable that he could serve as the best bridge to a new QB. He's been benched and he faces genuine competition for his job for the first time in his career. Maybe it's worth seeing how he responds to that. As I pointed out earlier today, of these 3 QBs, he actually has the best W/L record over the last 20 games or so.

I agree, and keep saying that Ponder is likely going to be "competing" with a rookie in 2014 given his contract and the lack of potential options on the roster. If/when the coaching staff is fired, it'll be interesting to see what a new staff thinks of him, but I still see him returning and competing in camp.

Freeman is the physically superior QB and both he and Cassel are more experienced than Ponder but we've seen their lows and they're every bit as low as Ponder's worst, complete with missed opportunities, badly thrown passes, interceptions, etc.

I'd actually give Ponder higher marks in athleticism, though is his lighter, shorter and doesn't have Freeman's arm strength. But, yes, all three of their floors are very, very low. It'd be nice to see a ceiling every now and again.

I don't know what the best choice is but that's what I'd consider doing. It will probably sound like a crazy, repellant idea to most Vikes fans and maybe it IS crazy but Ponder's the young QB in this situation, the one with the least experience and consequently, the one who may still have more to of his game to reveal. Myabe we won't want to see it when it's revealed but I think perhaps that plan to get off the island should be: start Ponder. If he seizes his final opportunity to lead the team, great. Keep him and draft someone to compete for/inherit the job next year. If not, keep prepping Freeman and when he's actually ready, let him take over. If he seizes the opportunity, see if he can be signed to a reasonable deal and then draft a QB anyway (in other words, draft a QB no matter what).

The only reason why I think this isn't likely is because nobody likes switching football-throwers. Going back to Ponder then possibly BACK to Freeman again? That's really pretty embarrassing (and not worth the contract shelled out to Freeman). Of course, after last night, embarrassing has taken on a new meaning. It's what people come to expect from this organization. Musical football-throwers (when nobody is injured) seems to me like a new level of ineptitude.

Mothman wrote: I will now prepare for people to scoff at this idea.

Jim

I actually agree with you. I never thought I'd say this, but Ponder is their best option right now. I think the world is about to end...

But in all seriousness, there is that little commitment detail you mentioned, on top of the fact that they might still be able to get something out of Ponder, be that in terms of performance, a bridge to the next prospect, or even trade with a QB-needy team over the offseason. Ponder is the only guy signed through next season, so that gives him some value. May as well try to maximize that value.

But it's not going to happen. If reports are true that Spielman wanted Freeman and Frazier didn't, then Spielman has WAY too much invested in Freeman to give up now. The Vikes spent a decent amount of money on the guy, had to release a guy they had spent time developing, and Freeman is free to go wherever he wants at the end of the season. So the only way the move makes sense is if Freeman continues to start, and if Frazier was against the move, the only way for him to make his point to the Wilfs is if Freeman continues to start, at least for the next several games.

Of course, if Freeman continues to whiff like he did against the Giants this is going to be similar to the trade for Randy Moss in terms of duration. I highly doubt even Spielman could force Frazier to start Freeman after 2 or 3 more stinkers like what we just saw.

In Ponder We Trust...

....

I am so depressed...

Mothman wrote:I realize how this will be received but I think going back to Ponder might actually be the best choice right now. He may be 0-3 but they were in position to win 2 of the 3 games he started this year and he's the only QB on the roster who hasn't been on the wrong end of a humiliating blowout loss this season.

Much as it pains me to say it, I completely agree. Of the three QBs they have, Ponder is their best bet right now. Give Freeman another shot in two or three weeks when he's ready and if Ponder is still stinking up the field.

The Vikings next game is against Green Bay on Sunday night. The one thing I don't want to see is another embarrassment, at home, against their biggest rival, on national TV. At least keep it competitive. You shouldn't be conducting QB tryouts during a game.

Eli wrote: Much as it pains me to say it, I completely agree. Of the three QBs they have, Ponder is their best bet right now. Give Freeman another shot in two or three weeks when he's ready and if Ponder is still stinking up the field.

The Vikings next game is against Green Bay on Sunday night. The one thing I don't want to see is another embarrassment, at home, against their biggest rival, on national TV. At least keep it competitive. You shouldn't be conducting QB tryouts during a game.

ESPN NFL - Vikings coach Leslie Frazier says QB Josh Freeman (20-of-53 vs. Giants) remains the starter

Surprise, surprise.

MelanieMFunk wrote: ESPN NFL - Vikings coach Leslie Frazier says QB Josh Freeman (20-of-53 vs. Giants) remains the starter

Surprise, surprise.

As bad as Freeman was, I still don't think he was that terrible. He showed poise. He was stepping up in the pocket. He didn't stare down receivers. His main problem was that he wasn't in sync with the rest of the team (which could have come from only being on the team for 2 weeks). I think that in 3-4 weeks Freeman will look great for us. It will just take time.

Valhalla wrote:I simply don't buy some of these assumptions, putting Ponder in the game as Carter and Gruden said is merely to try to win the game. To give you your best chance instead of insisting someone with 13 days on the team finishes no matter what.

I agree with you. However the Vikings clearly thought Freeman's talent was enough to overcome the difficulties in learning a new system. They felt a simple game plan (is there ever anything but that in terms of Vikings game plans) would be easy enough to have him execute. I would've pulled him coming out of the half myself.

Teams have played 2 quarterbacks before in games. It's unprofessional to not even give a hoot about the result of the game and be so locked into one's ways as to accept a loss to test out a QB whose former team has struggled mightily over the last 2-3 years.

FWIW, they weren't accepting a loss. I think they truly felt Freeman gave them the best chance to win and that he'd eventually settle down.

After those 29 games Ponder started, now we are saying "throw out all that experience, hard-earned" and just accept losing.

I don't buy that. As I mentioned, Spielman obviously has seen all he needs to make a decision regarding Ponder's future as staring football-thrower. Lest you forget, Josh Freeman has more experience than Ponder in terms of games started.

Vikings fans are really let down with this.

*shrug* It's like dying of hypothermia. After awhile you don't feel much and are sort of at peace with it all.

dead_poet wrote:FWIW, I also think Ponder gives them their best chance to win (which is, to say, about a 22% chance as opposed to a Cassel 21.9 percent chance and Freeman an 11%).

LOL! I'm laughing but those percentages are probably pretty accurate.

The only reason why I think this isn't likely is because nobody likes switching football-throwers. Going back to Ponder then possibly BACK to Freeman again? That's really pretty embarrassing (and not worth the contract shelled out to Freeman). Of course, after last night, embarrassing has taken on a new meaning. It's what people come to expect from this organization. Musical football-throwers (when nobody is injured) seems to me like a new level of ineptitude.

It si and I think your points about why the scenario I suggested won't play out are probably right on target. I also agreed with youra ssessment of Ponder's athleticism.

I like that you're now referring to Ponder, Cassel and Freeman as "football-throwers". I assume that means you feel they haven't earned the right to be called quarterbacks or passers.

VikingLord wrote:I actually agree with you. I never thought I'd say this, but Ponder is their best option right now. I think the world is about to end...

A pig just flew by my window!

But in all seriousness, there is that little commitment detail you mentioned, on top of the fact that they might still be able to get something out of Ponder, be that in terms of performance, a bridge to the next prospect, or even trade with a QB-needy team over the offseason. Ponder is the only guy signed through next season, so that gives him some value. May as well try to maximize that value.

Exactly. He's an asset, even if it turns out he's a meager asset.

Mothman wrote:I like that you're now referring to Ponder, Cassel and Freeman as "football-throwers". I assume that means you feel they haven't earned the right to be called quarterbacks or passers.

Until someone starts behaving like one, they don't get the same name we give to Peyton, Brady, Ryan, etc. Somebody's got to punish them.

dead_poet wrote:*shrug* It's like dying of hypothermia. After awhile you don't feel much and are sort of at peace with it all.

That's the Vikings fan experience summed up in one sentence. Well done.

The dumbest think about this whole Freeman thing is his contract being only this year.

Spielman shart himself there. A desperate move that resembles his reach for Ponder. These guys are full of crap claiming they are on the same page about anything.

Now they have no options whatsoever but to play him and hope that he magically improves his mechanics like all the other QBs to roll through here in the past decade.

Ponder should have played out the season. Fraizer's job should not be in jeopardy over the QB play....but because of how his coaching staff flails at getting players competent to the basics of their respective schemes. One of these coordinators or line coaches should have been canned by now....at Fraizer's insistence.

This whole Freeman experiment is a waste of time, money and player faith IMO.

You want to sum up the 2013 Vikings? Just look at Eli's new AV.....classic.