Vikings Message Board.Com

Reignman wrote:Idk, I watched the A&M/Bama game yesterday and AJ McCarren looked more like a NFL pocket passer and was more impressive than Manziel. All Manziel did was run around, leave the pocket early and throw the ball up for grabs most of the game. He just happens to have big receivers who can win those jump balls. I like his aggressiveness, but I don't think his game is going to work in the NFL.

Read this when you get a chance:

http://msn.foxsports.com/collegefootbal ... ama-091513

This author has a very different take on Manziel's performance in that game. Do you disagree with it and if so, what parts?

I'm just curious as I saw the same and took away much of the same. Given that Bama's defense is very good, perhaps the best in college football, I thought Manziel gave them fits for the most part. Not in an orthodox, drop-back-and-scan-the-field sense, but in a classic Tarkenton catch-me-if-you-can sense.

Manziel plays well under pressure and in big games. Call me crazy, but from where I sit the Vikes could use a big dose of that behind center.

JEC334 wrote:Im not trying to be racist or anything but outside of Doug Williams haven't you guys realized African American QBs have a difficult time winning super bowls????

Russel Wilson will be the next to win the big show.

Demi wrote: Lack of arm strength, lack of size, questionable intelligence...for starters.

You keep harping on his arm strength and yet I see him putting zip on his passes and he's thrown deep as much as any. His size may be the one measurable that may be questionable, but then, he's been throwing over big lineman at Texas A & M and seems to see the field just fine. And how much time has he lost due to injury? Are you talking football intelligence or off-field intelligence, because, honestly his game intelligence seems pretty high, with room for improvement. His maturity level DEFINITELY needs to come up.

I won't be heartbroken if he goes somewhere else, and there are no guarantees he will succeed, but some of these criticisms seem to be off target.

AJ McCarron is what we need and is a proven winner. He has the arm the strength, he is a pure pocket passer, and a play action monster. He will fit well in our system because in Bama they are a run based team as well so things shouldn't be too different here. The difference there is that he knows if the running game is getting cold, it's time to open up some passes and when the D is backing off he audible back to the run. He is also good at reading blitzes which is why you rarely see him getting sacked.

AJ McCarron is that guy. And Im not saying that because im a Alabama fan either.

JEC334 wrote:Im not trying to be racist or anything but outside of Doug Williams haven't you guys realized African American QBs have a difficult time winning super bowls????

So you're saying white guys have an easy time winning super bowls?

Purple bruise wrote: Or like Flynn Backing up Rogers, or Cassell backing up Brady

Or kevin kolb backing up Vick looool.

HornedMessiah wrote: So you're saying white guys have an easy time winning super bowls?

Im not going to turn this into a white QB vs Black QB debate, mainly because you have more white starting QBs than Black QBs. However, when black QBs do get into the big dance, most can not win the big one.

In my opinion, I think it has to do with a lot of them being mobile or a "dual threat." It works during the regular season but during the postseason, those QB scrambles are usually contained which becomes a problem because those scrambles are their biggest threat to opposing team. So when you take that advantage away from them, what do you have???? A RGIII after the injury, playing type QB. And that wont give you the big win if you're not used to carrying the team with your arm alone. But that's just my opinion though.

JEC334 wrote:AJ McCarron is what we need and is a proven winner. He has the arm the strength, he is a pure pocket passer, and a play action monster. He will fit well in our system because in Bama they are a run based team as well so things shouldn't be too different here. The difference there is that he knows if the running game is getting cold, it's time to open up some passes and when the D is backing off he audible back to the run. He is also good at reading blitzes which is why you rarely see him getting sacked.

AJ McCarron is that guy. And Im not saying that because im a Alabama fan either.

I don't know. I haven't seen enough of McCarron to say, but I have read this:

http://www.walterfootball.com/draft2014QB.php

First off, McCarron is the 10th QB on Walter Football's board. That alone is red flag for me.

But here are some observations I find more concerning, especially in light of our recent experience with a QB named Ponder:

9/7/13: McCarron's performance versus Virginia Tech wasn't the impressive game he needed to answer any of the questions about his passing ability. The senior didn't illustrate a stronger arm than in 2012, and he threw some passes off his back foot when he didn't need to. McCarron's accuracy wasn't as strong as in the past since his receivers weren't as wide open as they often were last year. McCarron finished 10-of-23 for 112 yards with a touchdown and interception. This outing didn't do anything to start to improve his draft stock.

arm strength is a question that scouts have about McCarron entering his senior season. There is some doubts about his arm for the NFL

McCarron had the luxury of a tremendous running game and defense to carry Alabama to a National Championship in 2011. He completed 67 percent of his passes for 2,634 yards with 16 touchdowns and five interceptions for the year

Concerns about arm strength, accuracy, and a lack of focus on him due to the incredible run game and defense he is afforded.

Not saying McCarron is Ponder, but there are parallels there and basedd on that I would have significant concerns.

I think McCarron is fools gold. That's one heck off an o-line he gets to stand behind. Hard to duplicate that in the NFL.

It's so hard to know though.

Demi wrote: Lack of arm strength, lack of size, questionable intelligence...for starters.

You and I disagree on just about everything, but not QBs. If things go as bad as I think they will this year, we will be in a position to get a QB, and I hope to god it isn't Johnny Football. I would rather them wait for later round QB, even 2nd or 3rd then waste a high draft pick again on a midget QB with no arm. Who is so scared now in the pocket he can only make a read and thinks of running.

VikingLord wrote:
I don't know. I haven't seen enough of McCarron to say, but I have read this:

http://www.walterfootball.com/draft2014QB.php

First off, McCarron is the 10th QB on Walter Football's board. That alone is red flag for me.

But here are some observations I find more concerning, especially in light of our recent experience with a QB named Ponder:
Concerns about arm strength, accuracy, and a lack of focus on him due to the incredible run game and defense he is afforded.

Not saying McCarron is Ponder, but there are parallels there and basedd on that I would have significant concerns.

Isn't that what the Vikings are? A strong running team with a strong defense. (well maybe not this season) McCarron is what the Vikings want Ponder to be. A good QB who make enough (passing) plays to keep the offense moving and limit turnovers. Yes his first game of this season wasn't so hot but he damage against Texas A&M this weekend. I think the scouts are being rough. He may not be a Manziel but McCarron knows how to WIN. I hope they keep underestimating him so he can fall to us on the draft boards.

PurpleKoolaid wrote: You and I disagree on just about everything, but not QBs. If things go as bad as I think they will this year, we will be in a position to get a QB, and I hope to god it isn't Johnny Football. I would rather them wait for later round QB, even 2nd or 3rd then waste a high draft pick again on a midget QB with no arm. Who is so scared now in the pocket he can only make a read and thinks of running.

As far as the midget comments goes, Fran Tarkenton was 6'0", 190 lbs when he played.

Johhny Manziel is 6'1", 210 lbs.

Russel Wilson is 5'11", 206 lbs.

All I can say is thank goodness neither Demi nor you are drafting QBs... You both would have passed on Tarkenton and Russell based on your focus on a guy's height and weight...

Russell Wilson was a diamond in the rough. So was Fran Tarkenton. You don't see many guys their size tear it up in the NFL.

JEC334 wrote:Russell Wilson was a diamond in the rough. So was Fran Tarkenton. You don't see many guys their size tear it up in the NFL.

So what, you don't draft them?

Somebody will see beyond stature and take Manziel. I predict that someone will end up far happier with their choice than whomever takes McCarron. But to each their own.

VikingLord wrote: So what, you don't draft them?

Somebody will see beyond stature and take Manziel. I predict that someone will end up far happier with their choice than whomever takes McCarron. But to each their own.

It's easy to say that now because Wilson and Fran Tarkenton proved everyone wrong. But to answer you question, Id draft Fran but not Wilson. If he ended up proving me wrong that's just the pill I have to swallow. Most QBs that short cant even see over the linemen. How those two did it, we will never know