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Re: Vikings build through draft under Rick Spielman, Frazier
Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 12:51 pm
by mondry
Mothman wrote:As JEC334 indicated, "building through the draft" doesn't mean building exclusively through the draft. There's no need to take the phrase so literally. When a team says they want to build through the draft it simply means they want the draft to be their primary team-building tool. It indicates a point of emphasis and based on what the Vikes have done in the past few years, it certainly looks like they're using the draft as the primary means of re-shaping their roster and setting a foundation for the future.
I know what you're saying and I don't disagree with it, but it kind of seems like a useless term then isn't it? Like every team is building through the draft then because every team still makes picks and gets a bulk of their new talent from the draft. The only way you wouldn't be building through the draft is if you traded most of your picks away for actual players every single year.
What I more relate the term "building through the draft" with, assuming we don't take it to literally mean ONLY using the draft and NO free agency, is a team will always draft the best player available for the long term strategy of trying to acquire as much young and above average talent as possible, compared to drafting to fill immediate needs, often reaching for players at a specific position, who may not be the best players available.
Now it's impossible to say if the Vikings have drafted the best player's available without seeing their board and player rankings but I would say they've done a much better job "building through the draft" then most other teams in the past 2 years using public scouting analysis as the base of judgement of best players available. Of course when you have so many holes, it's much easier to draft the best player available! Everything fills a need heh.
Re: Vikings build through draft under Rick Spielman, Frazier
Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 1:01 pm
by Mothman
mondry wrote:I know what you're saying and I don't disagree with it, but it kind of seems like a useless term then isn't it?
I don't think so. It's a way of differentiating a team that wants to do the majority of their work through the draft from a team that makes much more liberal use of free agency, as TB did last year, MIA did this year and the Redskins did for years.
Re: Vikings build through draft under Rick Spielman, Frazier
Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 1:20 pm
by mansquatch
Can we just call it SFD or Spielman/Frasier Doctrine? I mean for crying outloud, do we really care what the defininition is or do we care that they win an championship?
My opinion, I care if it works. If it works, I don't care what it is called, I just care that it put the Lombardi Trophy in Vikingland.
One can debate the merits, but I think that is a long term proposition. For example, when we complained about the Chidlress regime of "moves" it was pretty legit. Look no further than the gazillion posts about the QB situation. They were building via the draft and Free Agency during that time, just as we are now. The difference? The guys in charge. So humbly, I subimt SFD for your consideration.
Re: Vikings build through draft under Rick Spielman, Frazier
Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 1:33 pm
by Mothman
mansquatch wrote:Can we just call it SFD or Spielman/Frasier Doctrine? I mean for crying outloud, do we really care what the defininition is or do we care that they win an championship?
The definition! The definition is what's important!
Re: Vikings build through draft under Rick Spielman, Frazier
Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 2:06 pm
by mansquatch
I left it ambiguous so threads like this one can die in a fire.
J/K
The SFD is approximately 72.45461% Build through Draft and 22.54539% build through free agency. The missing 5% is for Whimsey and to make Jim mad.
Please note that there is a +/- 95% margin for error on those two percentages depending on the following:
A.) If Randy Moss is available we will trade all of our picks to Jimmy Johnson and thus curse the football world with his bad hair day for another generation
B.) If Randy Moss is available via FA we'll trade another 3rd round pick just so Belicik can still be considered draft day jesus
C.) I forgot to carry a zero in my massive excel model that computed the above perecentages
D.) A packer fan gets admin right to the website and decided to edit my post to mislead all of us
E.) Spielman takes up various mind altering substances next Arpil
F.) Fans are actually 100% right in their takes and we start firing coaches and cutting starters every week for percieved slights until the team is run by a couple of 4th string Flag Football 4th graders from the MPLS Wednesday night league.
Items G-ZZ5 are all based on a complex algorithm, so they should just be considered a black box that fans will have to accept as right without any evidence to back it up.
Have a nice day.
Re: Vikings build through draft under Rick Spielman, Frazier
Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 2:32 pm
by Mothman
mansquatch wrote:I left it ambiguous so threads like this one can die in a fire.
J/K
The SFD is approximately 72.45461% Build through Draft and 22.54539% build through free agency. The missing 5% is for Whimsey and to make Jim mad.
Please note that there is a +/- 95% margin for error on those two percentages depending on the following:
A.) If Randy Moss is available we will trade all of our picks to Jimmy Johnson and thus curse the football world with his bad hair day for another generation
B.) If Randy Moss is available via FA we'll trade another 3rd round pick just so Belicik can still be considered draft day jesus
C.) I forgot to carry a zero in my massive excel model that computed the above perecentages
D.) A packer fan gets admin right to the website and decided to edit my post to mislead all of us
E.) Spielman takes up various mind altering substances next Arpil
F.) Fans are actually 100% right in their takes and we start firing coaches and cutting starters every week for percieved slights until the team is run by a couple of 4th string Flag Football 4th graders from the MPLS Wednesday night league.
Items G-ZZ5 are all based on a complex algorithm, so they should just be considered a black box that fans will have to accept as right without any evidence to back it up.
Have a nice day.
Re: Vikings build through draft under Rick Spielman, Frazier
Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 5:56 pm
by Demi
The difference? The guys in charge.
Yep, and not much else!
Re: Vikings build through draft under Rick Spielman, Frazier
Posted: Thu May 09, 2013 11:46 am
by dead_poet
Ponder vs. Peterson: Skip Bayless is right?!
Well, knock me over with a feather. I found myself not completely disagreeing with "First Take" panelist Skip Bayless in this video discussion of the Minnesota Vikings' 2012 playoff run.
To take a step back, Vikings general manager Rick Spielman produced a news ripple recently when he told the NFL Network that quarterback Christian Ponder deserves "just as much credit for getting us in the playoffs" in 2012 as tailback Adrian Peterson. On first blush, the statement smacked of a general manager propping up one of his most important (and unproven) draft picks.
But as Bayless accurately pointed out, Ponder played better than many people realize during the Vikings' 4-0 finish to the regular season. How well? As we noted at the time, Ponder produced the league's second-highest Total Quarterback Rating (86.
during that stretch. And over the final half of the season, he had the league's second-best QBR on third downs.
Peterson handily won the league's MVP award and rushed for 651 yards and four touchdowns during that same 4-0 finish. (All with an undisclosed sports hernia injury.) Moreover, without his earlier contributions, the Vikings never would have been in position to make a playoff run in the first place.
I don't know how to quantify credit for contributions to a playoff run. Spielman's equal split was probably generous toward Ponder, but let's put it this way: If Ponder hadn't straightened himself out in December, the Vikings wouldn't have made it to the postseason
http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_ ... s-is-right
Re: Vikings build through draft under Rick Spielman, Frazier
Posted: Thu May 09, 2013 12:20 pm
by mondry
Pretty much what I was saying on the last page. I know a lot of folks here don't want to give Ponder credit and think we could direct snap to AD every single play and win the superbowl but there is no doubt without Ponder (or Peterson) we don't make the playoffs. Thus they both deserve praise.
Re: Vikings build through draft under Rick Spielman, Frazier
Posted: Thu May 09, 2013 12:54 pm
by Pepper2Moss
Both deserve praise maybe, but I'd say its at least a 70:30 split in Peterson's favor as to the finish.
Re: Vikings build through draft under Rick Spielman, Frazier
Posted: Thu May 09, 2013 12:56 pm
by HardcoreVikesFan
mondry wrote:
Pretty much what I was saying on the last page. I know a lot of folks here don't want to give Ponder credit and think we could direct snap to AD every single play and win the superbowl but there is no doubt without Ponder (or Peterson) we don't make the playoffs. Thus they both deserve praise.
Hey now, I cannot be the only one that thinks the occasional direct snap to Peterson would not be a bad idea!
I have said more than a few times this offseason, but I think Ponder takes the next step this year. I expect this team to be at least a wildcard playoff team and I think they will be.
Re: Vikings build through draft under Rick Spielman, Frazier
Posted: Fri May 10, 2013 12:05 pm
by HardcoreVikesFan
Draft Fallout: Minnesota Vikings
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap100000 ... ta-vikings
At the end of Brett Favre's Minnesota stint in 2010, it was obvious that the Vikings' once-talented roster had too many key players in sharp decline. By the time the Vikings pulled off a 24-13 upset of the San Francisco 49ers in Week 3 of last season, it was evident that general manager Rick Spielman had pulled off an impressive rebuild of his defense.
Wut... Someone in the media finally recognized Everson Griffen's impact?
This article does not say too much different than what has been said on this board in the last couple of weeks. Still, I thought it was an interesting read.