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VikeMike wrote: That's exactly why AD is on my list. Maybe he moves up, maybe he doesn't. It's just my opinion, nothing more.

Brown certainly faced defenses crowding the box. Same with Payton and Campbell. I think it's just amazing that Peterson should be in the conversation ... He's an incredible runner and I'm damn glad the Vikings scooped him up in the draft. Can you imagine him as a Brown? Ugh.

You're right, Moth, it's hard to compare players of different eras. If Brown didn't retire when he still had plenty of gas in the tank, the distance between the rest might be greater. And, obviously, some great backs are not mentioned when you whittle down to a top five. Simpson (although his legacy is so different now), Faulk, Sayers, Jackson, Allen, Smith. That's some great company!

Here's the thing about Jim Brown.

He was 6-2 and 232 pounds. In his day, LINEMEN weren't much more than 232 pounds. Some examples of players Brown played against: Alex Karras, a 4-time Pro Bowl defensive tackle, weighed 242. Forrest Gregg, a HOF offensive tackle, weighed 249. Doug Atkins, a HOF defensive end, weighed 258 but was 6-8. Alan Page came along AFTER Jim Brown, and Vikings fans know he typically weighed in at 240 tops. Carl Eller played at 247. Merlin Olsen was considered enormous at 270.

Basically, the people trying to bring down Jim Brown weren't significantly bigger than he was. But they were almost all slower. By comparison, imagine Adrian Peterson weighing 275 pounds and being the fastest guy on the field. That would be the comparison -- almost as big as the linemen, bigger than the linebackers, and faster than everybody. That's what Brown had going for him.

Not diminishing Brown's accomplishments. Not at all. He was great. I never saw him play, but I've seen plenty of film. Great back. But he played in another era under an extremely different set of circumstances.

Of course, Adrian doesn't have Brown's numbers yet, and chances are that he won't, mainly because his running style will likely cut his career short. But to me, to my eyes, he's just as good as Jim Brown, Walter Payton, and certainly Emmitt Smith ever were.

Brown being as big as he was and as fast as he was definitely were advantages he had over the defenders. He also never missed a game due to injury. Hell, Bronko Nagurski was 235 in 1930 and had a 19 1/2 size ring. Neither could jump cut like Peterson. Would AD dominate in Brown's era? Of course he would ... But I think Brown could have played extremely well in this era, too. I definitely am a bigger fan of Peterson's, but I have to give Jim Brown his due. In a few years, Peterson may surpass Brown as the best runner in history, if he continues to play like he is. I would love it, but I can't put him above him at this point.

VikeMike wrote:Brown being as big as he was and as fast as he was definitely were advantages he had over the defenders. He also never missed a game due to injury. Hell, Bronko Nagurski was 235 in 1930 and had a 19 1/2 size ring. Neither could jump cut like Peterson. Would AD dominate in Brown's era? Of course he would ... But I think Brown could have played extremely well in this era, too. I definitely am a bigger fan of Peterson's, but I have to give Jim Brown his due. In a few years, Peterson may surpass Brown as the best runner in history, if he continues to play like he is. I would love it, but I can't put him above him at this point.

Don't mean to diminish the great Jimmy Brown. Not at all. Just as Adrian is a freak of nature in his time, JB was a freak in the 1950s and early 1960s. He was great.

The injury thing isn't a fair comparison, though. Again, times were different. I don't think there's been a more dangerous time in football than the couple of years leading up to the "helpless receiver" rule. Players are so big and fast, and the quality of the protective gear is so great that they end up with a false sense of protection. Even now, players are missiles.

Look at film from Brown's era. There were hard hitters, for sure. The clothesline tackle was still legal, as was the head slap. But players didn't catapult into each other the way they do now, likely because helmets and shoulder pads from that time were paltry compared to what they have now. Also, a concussion in the 50s and 60s was simply known as "getting your bell rung." Today, it lands you on the injury report, and a bunch of doctors have to say you're OK before you can even practice.

Again, Brown was great. The greatest of his era, for sure. I believe Adrian is in the same category. Nobody in the league can touch him right now, at least as a ball carrier. As far as I'm concerned, it's been that way since he first set foot on an NFL field back in '07.

Its hard to say Peterson is the best ever because he still has many years ahead of him but its pretty darn close. ESPN has pointed out that the only other RB's that ran like AP are Bo Jackson and Earl Campbell and they faded very fast. Peterson is doing nothing but getting better which is scary.

Something Ive always noticed with AP is that he is a 2nd level back. What I mean by this is I personally think he enjoys when teams stack the box on him because as long as he beats that first wave, usually he only has to beat out a DB. The more teams stack the box, the better he does. His best year other than this one was 08 when we had Kelly Holcomb at the helm and Peterson went off for 1700. Teams stacked the box every single game. Im actually surprised teams havent caught onto this. However, analysts said on ESPN tonight that the Rams kept their LB's back vs SF and it helped them keep Gore in check. I wouldnt be surprised if St Louis does this Sunday. Fisher is a pretty smart coach.

I personally think he is very similar to Payton. If you watch Paytons highlights he had the elusiveness and power Peterson has. Payton always dropped a shoulder and hated going out of bounds. In my top 5 Payton would probably be #1 and AP isnt far off. Whats even crazier is that AP is even better after his injury which is almost unheard of. Either way, he is as close as it gets to being the best running back to ever play the game.

Just wanted to leave you guys with a cool video I found on him from this year.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbua_SyD ... pQ&index=1

Holcomb wasn't quarterback in 08, that was Ferrotte, than Jackson in December. Not that Ferrotte was much better, they won in spite of his interception sprees. But he gave a little more threat.

PurpleHalo wrote:Holcomb wasn't quarterback in 08, that was Ferrotte, than Jackson in December. Not that Ferrotte was much better, they won in spite of his interception sprees. But he gave a little more threat.

Yeah I just re-read my post and realized I got that mixed up. Holcomb was 07

1.Barry Sanders

2. O.J. Simpson

3. Walter Payton

4. Jim Brown

5. Eric Dickerson

6. Marshall Faulk

7. Adrian Peterson + Marcus Allen + Tomlinson

8.John Riggins+ Earl Cambell

9.Emitt Smith (wanted him off my list, but he did have some big games hurt ,and a lot of yards)

10. Rodger Craig ( made the 49ers offense of 80's possible could do so much out of the backfield in receiving and blocking)

I have trouble mentioning 5 when I can mention 7:

Brown
Simpson
Payton
Smith
Sanders
(Alternates) Campbell and Dickerson

I would say that AD is a Hall of Famer even if he never plays another snap, but I have trouble putting him on the top 5 list quite yet. He might get there if he comes to have great longevity (like Smith), but I'm not sure he's there yet. He has his limitations as a back (neither the best receiver nor the best blocker), and in the biggest game of his career to date, he fumbled away his team's chances. Still, his explosive running makes him a Hall of Famer, and he has plenty more opportunities to increase his stock, just like he has done in the first 13 games of this season.

DanAS wrote:I have trouble mentioning 5 when I can mention 7:

Brown
Simpson
Payton
Smith
Sanders
(Alternates) Campbell and Dickerson

I would say that AD is a Hall of Famer even if he never plays another snap, but I have trouble putting him on the top 5 list quite yet. He might get there if he comes to have great longevity (like Smith), but I'm not sure he's there yet. He has his limitations as a back (neither the best receiver nor the best blocker), and in the biggest game of his career to date, he fumbled away his team's chances. Still, his explosive running makes him a Hall of Famer, and he has plenty more opportunities to increase his stock, just like he has done in the first 13 games of this season.

If we're going to go by all-around play, let's compare stats among your top 5, alternates, and Adrian. I think you might be surprised.

Receptions per Game
Walter Payton 2.58
Barry Sanders 2.30
Emmitt Smith 2.28
Jim Brown 2.22
Adrian Peterson 2.03
Eric Dickerson 1.92
O.J. Simpson 1.50
Earl Campbell 1.05

Rushing Yards per Game
Jim Brown 104.3
Barry Sanders 99.8
Adrian Peterson 97.1
Eric Dickerson 90.8
Walter Payton 88.0
O.J. Simpson 83.2
Earl Campbell 81.8
Emmitt Smith 81.2

Yards per Carry
Jim Brown 5.2
Barry Sanders 5.0
Adrian Peterson 5.0
O.J. Simpson 4.7
Walter Payton 4.4
Eric Dickerson 4.4
Earl Campbell 4.3
Emmitt Smith 4.2

Touchdowns per Game (rushing and receiving)
Jim Brown 1.068
Adrian Peterson 0.895
O.J. Simpson 0.800
Emmitt Smith 0.774
Walter Payton 0.658
Eric Dickerson 0.658
Earl Campbell 0.643 (Campbell never had a receiving touchdown)
Barry Sanders 0.621

Just for fun, I took a look at Gale Sayers, too. His average of 72.9 ypg ranks well behind all these guys, and his TDs/game are 0.823, which actually ranks behind AP.

As far as blocking is concerned, Payton was a good pass protector, and Smith was pretty good. Beyond that, none of these guys are known for their blocking, especially Sanders, O.J. Simpson, Campbell and Dickerson. That's my opinion, of course, but I saw everybody but Jim Brown play regularly in my lifetime.

Did they help their teams win? Smith and Brown played for winning teams on a regular basis. O.J.'s teams had winning records only three times in his career and never won a division title (he played in only one playoff game in his entire career). Barry Sanders is known for playing with a horrible Lions franchise, but his teams actually had winning records in five of his 10 seasons, including a couple of division championships. Payton, of course, played on losers until the end, but he did take home a championship in '85. Campbell definitely played on winners, while Dickerson never played on a losing team until his final four seasons (7 winners). Adrian is in an interesting position. If the Vikings finish 8-8 this year, he will have played for two losing teams, two winning teams, and two .500 teams.

I think a strong case can be made for Adrian being in the top 5 all-time, but I understand longevity concerns. Statistically, however, he's right there.

Something else about Dickerson, Campbell and Sayers.

Dickerson's HOF credentials were established entirely in his first seven years, when he was incredible. After that, he never ran for more than 729 in a season.

Campbell had five 1,000 yard seasons. Same as Adrian has right now.

Gale Sayers played seven seasons, but only played as many as 10 games four times. His last two years were limited to two games each.

So basically, the legends of each of these players was built on approximately the same number of seasons as AP has played. So if those guys are top 5 or alternates, then a very strong case can be made for AP to at least be in the same company.

I think Adrian is either the best, or second best behind Jim Brown. Back then, the game wasn't as "figured" out and the rules didn't favor the passing game so much. For Adrian to have a shot at breaking the all time rushing record in 2012 is far more impressive to me. Players are bigger, faster, and much stronger than back in the day and that favors a defense when it comes to stopping a running back.

If you told most teams in this day and age that all they really had to do was stop the running game, every other running back in the league right now would be lucky to get 1500 yards, in fact only 5 guys other than AD really even have a chance at 1500 this season and all of them have better passing games to take the heat off.

Put AD in the league 40-50 years ago and we're talking 2200+ on a regular basis.

If AP breaks the record he will be #1 on my list. Otherwise it is as follows:
Payton
Sanders
AP
Brown
Dikerson

Here is mine:
Sanders
Payton
AD
Brown
Smith
If AD breaks record he moves up either to 1st or 2nd

Best eva

mondry wrote:I think Adrian is either the best, or second best behind Jim Brown. Back then, the game wasn't as "figured" out and the rules didn't favor the passing game so much. For Adrian to have a shot at breaking the all time rushing record in 2012 is far more impressive to me. Players are bigger, faster, and much stronger than back in the day and that favors a defense when it comes to stopping a running back.

If you told most teams in this day and age that all they really had to do was stop the running game, every other running back in the league right now would be lucky to get 1500 yards, in fact only 5 guys other than AD really even have a chance at 1500 this season and all of them have better passing games to take the heat off.

Put AD in the league 40-50 years ago and we're talking 2200+ on a regular basis.

You put AD in the league 40-50 years ago and he never recovers from that injury.