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Just re-watched the play. Everyone is covered well. Four receivers, six DBs. Rudolph doubled. Lions seem to have the perfect package. Ponder looks to the end zone on one or two reads. Nothing is there. His clock went off and he had to get rid of the ball with the defense pressuring. He COULD have scrambled left/forward to buy some time buy he would've been throwing back across his body if he found anyone. The play was essentially dead. He could have run for 5 yards, threw into the stands (which fans typically don't like to see on third down in that situation) or dump off to Toby to see if he could make a play. I wish it would've been a TD but I'm glad to get the points. The first down where Fusco stepped on Ponder's foot and he lost about five yards really hurt.DarthBrooks wrote:There is one play I'd like to see the tape on. Third quarter, ten minutes in, 3rd and ten on Detroit's ten. Ponder throws a pass to Gerhart for five yards. Next play is a field goal. Watching the play it looked obvious that Toby didn't have a chance to get in. I don't get the logic of going to a checkdown in that situation. Advancing the ball five yards does nothing. It opens the opportunity for a fumble or deflected pass and doesn't make it an easier kick. It would seem that the pass needed to go into the endzone or the stands. Even a sack at that distance wouldn't have affected the kicking distance much.
It looked to me like #24 would have been in good position to cut off a throw to Wright in the back of the endzone. As you said, everyone appears to be covered (I say "appears" because Aromashodu is out of the picture). I think Ponder dumped it Gerhart hoping he could break Lacey's tackle and score. The logic behind it is just creating a chance for something positive to happen. Sure, it risks a negative result too but I think the QB has to try to get the ball to an open player and give him a chance to score in that situation.dead_poet wrote: Just re-watched the play. Everyone is covered well. Four receivers, six DBs. Rudolph doubled. Lions seem to have the perfect package. Ponder looks to the end zone on one or two reads. Nothing is there. His clock went off and he had to get rid of the ball with the defense pressuring. He COULD have scrambled left/forward to buy some time buy he would've been throwing back across his body if he found anyone. The play was essentially dead. He could have run for 5 yards, threw into the stands (which fans typically don't like to see on third down in that situation) or dump off to Toby to see if he could make a play. I wish it would've been a TD but I'm glad to get the points. The first down where Fusco stepped on Ponder's foot and he lost about five yards really hurt.
Edit: I watched several more times. He MAY have tried to fit the ball over the defender to Wright in the slot on his third progression.
http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_ ... ack-reportChristian Ponder
Passer rating: 114.2
QBR: 90.0
Action plays: 42
Comment: Ponder's QBR was a career high, mostly because he opened with a game-changing play -- a 54-yard deep post to receiver Jarius Wright -- to put his team in position for an early lead. After that, he was efficient and nearly mistake-free. Although he didn't attempt a pass that traveled more than 14 yards downfield after the big throw, Ponder completed eight of 10 third-down passes overall. He didn't commit a turnover and took only one sack. How successful can the Vikings be when Ponder simply plays at an average level? This season, they are 5-0 when his QBR is above 50 (considered exactly average). They are 1-4 when it has been below 50.
If the coaches start playing Wright and Harvin at the same time, then the notion that Harvin's "whining" had anything to do with it gets blown out of the water. Then again, Percy Harvin told Tom Pelissero and Judd Zulgad that what upset him and led to the incident before the season was the playcalling. It's the same thing he chided Frazier about recently. I don't consider that to be "whining." In fact, I'm glad Harvin spoke up about it.CalVike wrote: You may be right but it seems speculative to me, which is fine, that's what we do. I'll offer a speculation of my own. If the coaches were holding out Wright as merely a Harvin backup, it may have something to do with Harvin's public whining and demand of a trade in the off-season.It was stated by all it was not about Contract. Harvin saw limited snaps last year and saw two stud WRs from Arkansas drafted in his free agent year along with a big TE FA signing. What if Harvin's pouts caused them to design myopic game plans targeting Percy more than the ideal amount and held back Wright to keep Percy happy. I hope my paragraph of speculation is the most ridiculous conspiracy theory spouted on this board in some time.
He did look for someone in the end zone. A couple someones. They were blanketed. I don't know why throwing to an open guy in hopes he makes a play is worse than throwing the ball away.GBFavreFan wrote:otherwise he should've looked for someone in the end zone or tossed it out since a FG was a guarantee either way.
I don't know if that's accurate or not, but unless we have a stat it's pretty much a subjective thing.He seems to throw it to guys 5 yards away from the 1st on 3rd down A LOT]
True, but they also have to be somewhat open and the line has to be able to give him the time to find those receivers. This game aside, too often as of late he had not been seeing the receiver, they've been covered, protection broke down almost immediately or a combination.and he needs to get a LOT better at reading receivers who are actually beyond the 1st down marker
I doubt he cares about his numbers as long as he's moving the chains, mitigating turnovers, completing passes and winning games. The injury statement is a little ridiculous. Receivers are in harms way every time they are thrown the ball, not just if they get the ball a few yards short of a first down marker.otherwise he's just padding his completion percentage and risking injury to the receivers.
Like I said elsewhere, it probably has to do with his role. Not being as good of a blocker as Burton (to his credit, Burton IS a pretty efficient blocker...which is the only thing he has going for him). Doesn't have the size or skillset of an outside receiver. Harvin is already the slot guy. Not as competent in the return game. All this according to what I believe the coaches are thinking. I'd still like to see him replace Burton or Jenkins. I don't see how that'd hurt anything. Risk-reward in my mind is pretty minimal.losperros wrote:That's basically all I'm saying, aside from why wasn't Wright out there ahead of the likes of Burton and Jenkins long ago?
Maybe Wright didn't look ready to play until recently. After all, reports say that in practice on Friday, he dropped the long pass that he was (thankfully) able to catch in the game. Earlier this season, there was a report that he was dropping quite a few passes in practice. Who knows how well he was running routes, understanding his assignments, etc. prior to this point? I think his speed could have been an asset earlier in the year even if all they did was send him on a deep route here and there but the coaching staff may have kept him under wraps for good reasons...losperros wrote:If the coaches start playing Wright and Harvin at the same time, then the notion that Harvin's "whining" had anything to do with it gets blown out of the water. Then again, Percy Harvin told Tom Pelissero and Judd Zulgad that what upset him and led to the incident before the season was the playcalling. It's the same thing he chided Frazier about recently. I don't consider that to be "whining." In fact, I'm glad Harvin spoke up about it.
Right now both Ponder and Wright are lobbying to get Wright and Harvin on the field at the same time, according to Mark Craig of the Strib. I'm hoping it will happen because I think it's better for the offense. That's basically all I'm saying, aside from why wasn't Wright out there ahead of the likes of Burton and Jenkins long ago?
He did look for someone in the endzone. There was nobody open. Why toss it away when he had Gerhart wide open at the eight with one defender converging on him? If that defender (Lacey) misses the open field tackle, there's a reasonable chance Gerhart could score. I'd give that as much chance of success as Ponder running left and trying to get one of the two receivers on that side open against the 4 defenders over there covering them.GBFavreFan wrote:I think you're all giving Ponder too much credit here. The problem is he "dumps" it seemingly ten times every game and always to a receiver that is well behind the first down. As I recall for this play his dumping it was a waste because we were already deep into FG range and he should've bought himself more time and attempted to make a play instead. And I also think him dumping it to give the receiver a chance to make a play when there are 2 defenders closing in, is giving Ponder even more credit than he probably deserves. Ponder dumped it to dump it, not because he actually expected anyone to get a 1st down. I just don't think he's at that point where he thinks beyond the catch. Now if that short completion somehow helped Ponder's overall confidence as a passer than i guess that's a net gain, otherwise he should've looked for someone in the end zone or tossed it out since a FG was a guarantee either way.
I think this is just a play where the Lions did a good job and kept the Vikings out of the endzone. Sometimes the defense wins a battle and you just have to give them credit.
Mothman wrote:
It's easy to play QB from home.
The only thing is this photo is showing a 9 on 9 play, there's two more Viking and two more Lion players that aren't captured. Until the coaches tape comes out, it's tough to say where that ball should have gone. I'm hoping at least one of the Viking receivers ran a route to the back of the endzone.losperros wrote:From this photo, it seems to me that the best read is throwing to Gerhardt. BTW, we've seen Gerhardt break tackles before. I wish it could have happened this time, but even though it didn't, I like Ponder's choice on this one.
Yes, we can do that. We can also express our opinions.acousticrock wrote:Can we try going positive with the coaching staff here?
I agree. That's why I said, "From this photo."S197 wrote: The only thing is this photo is showing a 9 on 9 play, there's two more Viking and two more Lion players that aren't captured. Until the coaches tape comes out, it's tough to say where that ball should have gone. I'm hoping at least one of the Viking receivers ran a route to the back of the endzone.
