Christian Ponder being held back

[Mothman]

No. You just said we needed a deep threat and then claimed Brandon Lloyd was one.

I said we needed an outside threat, not a deep threat but never mind because ...

I'm more than happy to drop this line of discussion and snarky comments along with them if you are.

It's a deal.

So, the Vikings need not just 2, but 3 guys to demand serious attention from the defense? We have a top 3 slot receiver AND RB. We also have a good TE.

I think they have an average TE who has been good in the red zone this season. Rudolph has great hands but outside of the red zone, he hasn't posed much of a matchup problem for opposing defenses and he struggles to gain separation. I love his potential but he's not the kind of threat I'm talking about. Defenses can single cover him most of the time.

How many weapons does one offense need? What team has 3 guys on one team that demands that type of attention?

I'm talking about a second player who presents a serious matchup problem for defenses in the passing game. After Harvin, I don't think the Vikings have that player.

I'm not calling for Joe Webb, and I'm fine with Ponder finishing out the year, but I really think the QB position is just as much of a need for the vikings as the WR one.

I think it's as unresolved as the WR position but whether Ponder is the QB next year or someone else is, the WR corps could still use an upgrade.

[Mothman]

Coach Says Christian Ponder in No Jeopardy of Losing Starting Job

He also noted the obvious point that Ponder and his wide receivers need to get on the same page when it comes to connecting on vertical routes.

"One of the things we've got to do a better job of is making sure that our quarterback feels comfortable in the pocket," Frazier said. "We have to do a good job of running good routes and making ourselves available to the quarterback. And then when guys are there, we've got to make sure we get the football to them on time.

"In the passing game, that's generally the way it is. It's not any one thing. It's a combination and that's what we're seeing when we're looking at the tape. We've got to improve on what we're doing and we're talking about ways to do that. It's going to be hard for us to achieve our goals if we're not able to improve our passing game."

[Raptorman]

You know, I'm not calling for Webb, but it would have been interesting to see what he could have done at the WR position. Move him to WR and keep Rosencopter for the second QB. But it's to late for that.

[Laserman]

well,

When you reach into EVERYBODY Elses 2nd round qb Prospects and draft in the first round this is what you get. Just because Ponder is super smart doesn't mean he will turn into Peyton Manning

[Raptorman]

One more point I would like to make, and I am sure some will take me task for it. When Rodgers took over for the Packers his WR corp was Donald Driver, Greg Jennings, Jordy Nelson, James Jones, Ruvell Martin and their main TE was Donald Lee. Not much has changed over the last 4 years. Martin and Lee are out but they have Cobb and Finley. The point is, Rodgers had good WR's and people catching the ball and his stats were not much better than Ponders at this point.(7-11 his first 18 starts) Not saying Ponder is the next Rodgers, it's just that even the good QB's take time to develop. And Rodgers had 3 years sitting on the bench behind Favre. To expect a QB to be Super Bowl bound in his second year is just expecting to much.

[FailedtoOpen]

But the Vikings do have arguably the #1 back in the game in AD, a stated philosophy of run-first, and most defenses they play bring up extra help to defend against it.

But the Vikings do have arguably the #1 all-around threat in Percy Harvin, a guy who, despite being the main focus of most defenses outside of AD, still manages to rack up impressive yardage as both a runner and a receiver.

But the Vikings do have an arguable mismatch-creator at TE in Rudolph, a guy who catches balls that, as long as they are placed near him, many other WR's, not to mention TE's, wouldn't.

They have weapons but that doesn't translate into an amazing offense. When they get the connection between Harvin and Ponder going it tends to translate into a big day for both. But with the return of Simpson it seems like they're shying away from Harvin to get Simpson more involved.

If this is a confidence problem, I don't know how Musgrave could make it any easier for him. Short, quick throws to the flat are about as easy as it gets at this level. If he can't hit those now I don't know what else they can try to get his mojo back.

I don't think its his confidence that is shaky. It's him rhythm as a QB that seems shaky. He doesn't have the two best threats as reliable resources due to them disappearing in the last two games. Rudolph isn't exceptionally fast and although he is bigger then a lot of players he doesn't always get amazing separation. Harvin can be double covered if needed, or gameplanned against (due to him being used in a stagnant fashion).

This just leaves Simpson (who is not on the same page as Ponder), Carlson (who isn't playing), Aroma (who is basically irrelevant in this offense), and Jenkins (who happens to wear a number and play). There is a reason Brandon Marshall has more then half as many TDS this year then last year and it';s because he is with a QB he is comfortable with.

There is a lot more to throwing a football to a receiver then just throwing. How fast they run, where they will be, and how far can they go up and get it are all huge factors in determining where you locate the football. This isn't something you just build in a week and it isn't by chance that the two best receivers on this team have a connection with Ponder.

If this is a lack of talent at OL or WR, shouldn't the #12 pick in a draft be able to counter that a bit? It seems like Ponder's defenders are pointing to what he doesn't have around him. What about what he can do to counter it?

Because the QB is influenced by the most amount of variables. You need an OL to block and you need your receivers to run the correct routes and get separation.

I"m not a Ponder lover. However I live in the Bay Area and I'm around a lot of 49'er fans. I see all the flack Smith has gotten for so many years, and still gets. Even now that offense is pretty poor and is built the same way that the Vikings are built, and they've also been exposed by some teams.

[S197]

Multiple announcers have said Harvin would be their top choice outside a QB in terms of a guy they'd want on their team. AD, nothing more needs to be said. We got the best LT in the draft and the best TE in the draft last year. Then it was wait until Simpson plays, he'll open up the field. Now we need some other unknown outside threat. Exactly how many probowl or high round picks do we need before this offense turns decent. Forget great, this offense is anemic, teams do with less, our personnel should be enough to at least field a decent offense.

Great coaches and players supplement their star players with serviceable players. This isn't the MLB you can't have stars at every position, at some point the offense is going to have to improve its execution with what they have.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

[Mothman]

Multiple announcers have said Harvin would be their top choice outside a QB in terms of a guy they'd want on their team. AD, nothing more needs to be said. We got the best LT in the draft and the best TE in the draft last year. Then it was wait until Simpson plays, he'll open up the field. Now we need some other unknown outside threat. Exactly how many probowl or high round picks do we need before this offense turns decent. Forget great, this offense is anemic, teams do with less, our personnel should be enough to at least field a decent offense.

Great coaches and players supplement their star players with serviceable players. This isn't the MLB you can't have stars at every position, at some point the offense is going to have to improve its execution with what they have.

I agree that they need to improve what they have... this year, but shouldn't they then try to improve by adding more in the offseason? Isn't that the point of the offseason?

Nobody is saying they need stars at every position but right now, on offense, they have stars at two positions: RB and slot receiver. That's it. Kalil is a high draft pick but he's not a star. Rudolph isn't a star. Nobody else is even close to being a star.

They need WR help. It's beyond obvious. Simpson hasn't had much time to prove he can provide the kind of help they need but even if he does (and I don't think he has yet), they'll need to re-sign him. If he doesn't, or if they can't re-sign him, I'd argue that they will then have one starting-caliber WR on the roster. One. An offense doesn't need to have stars at every position but is it too much to ask for the Vikings to have 2-3 good, starting caliber WRs? Jenkins isn't a bad player but he's a borderline starter at this point in his career. I'm not saying the Vikes have to spend their first round pick on a receiver but they need an infusion of talent at the position. I don't know why anyone would disagree with that or object to the idea.

[NextQuestion]

If you watch highlights from Ponder's first start and now it looks different. It seems as if that hop pointer really got to him. He was so quick and his accuracy was on point. Now he drops back...stands as still as possible looking down his 1 target...and either gets sacked, picked, or is nowhere on target

[Sutsgold]

Look at the transformation of our offense as season went along. Early, we were not sure about Peterson, we used everyone. As Peterson has progressed, we have become less dynamic in our plays. (That is Musgrave). Has anyone seen Rudolph make a significant play in the last three weeks? Early on he was on his way to being the best t.e. option in the nfl, now he is invisible. What happened to our two tightend offense? On Thursday night our play calling was again predictable!

[NextQuestion]

Carlson was a mistake and it's a bummer we spent money on him. This thread title should be called "Christian Ponder holding Vikings back".

[Mothman]

Carlson was a mistake and it's a bummer we spent money on him.

That's the way it goes sometimes. Ultimately, while they spent a lot of money in "real life" terms, in cap terms it shouldn't hurt them much at all:

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_ ... -contracts

Some of you might note the five-year, $25 million contract the Minnesota Vikings gave tight end John Carlson last spring. Carlson has played sparingly (27.2 percent of snaps), caught three passes and is currently sidelined by a concussion. But as Tom Pelissero of 1500ESPN.com points out, the Vikings could void his contract after this season (provided he is not still injured) for a modest $4 million cap hit.

[PurpleMustReign]

I would be ok with resigning Simpson as long as they get a legit #1, or outside threat if you want to consider Harvin #1, to go with it.

Can someone post a list of free agent WRs for this upcoming offseason?

[NextQuestion]

Name Team Depth Age Yrs Exp. Rank
Danny Amendola STL WR4 26 4 #44
Devin Aromashodu MIN WR4 28 6 #104
Ramses Barden NYG WR4 26 3 #81
Dwayne Bowe KC WR1 28 5 #15
Josh Cribbs CLE WR4 29 7 #121
Victor Cruz NYG WR2 25 2 #9
Donald Driver GB WR5 37 13 #74
Brandon Gibson STL WR1 25 3 #66
Ted Ginn SF 27 5
Devery Henderson NO WR3 30 8 #70
Greg Jennings GB WR2 29 6 #14
Johnny Knox CHI 25 3
Randy Moss SF WR2 35 14 #46
Jordan Norwood CLE 26 3
Courtney Roby NO 29 7
Chaz Schilens NYJ WR3 26 4 #90
Jerome Simpson MIN WR2 26 4 #61
Steve Smith STL WR3 27 5 #72
Brandon Stokley DEN WR3 36 13 #87
Mike Wallace PIT WR1 26 3 #13
Wes Welker NE WR2 31 8 #22

http://www.fftoolbox.com/football/2012/ ... yer_pos=WR
Obviously Mike Wallace would be awesome but he'll want Megatron money. Even after his holdout he's still the best Steeler WR. Brandon Gibson from STL would be kind of dope. He'd be great with a good QB

[J. Kapp 11]

I was at the game Thursday, and what I saw was not a QB who was being held back.If anything, I saw an offensive coordinator who was trying awfully hard to make plays down the field when it was clear that Tampa Bay had no answer for Adrian Peterson.

I also saw a QB who was consistently pressured up the middle.

Now, that's not an excuse for Ponder. Actually, it's kind of an indictment. The good quarterbacks seem to take care of everything when they get to the line, including protection. I can only recall Christian Ponder MAYBE once or twice doing anything at the line except calling the normal cadence and snapping the ball. I didn't see a lot of adjustment.

Given that I'm no coach, that may not mean anything. But honestly, the Bradys, the Mannings, the Breeze's ... you see them making calls at the line virtually every play. I'd wager they're not necessarily changing the play, but adjusting the protection.

The pocket was in Ponder's face for much of the night, especially early. Except for quick-hitting plays, it was almost never clean. No doubt, our O-line had a bad night in pass protection. But I have to wonder how well he understands where pressure is coming from at this early stage in his career.