Zimmer pleased with Patterson's offseason work, 'mentality'

[dead_poet]

I think they've had a few good groups since Carter left but not on the level of CC, Moss and Reed and never for long. Moss, Burleson, Robinson and Campbell were very effective and I think Rice, Harvin and Berrian were a strong trio in 2009.

I'm interested in seeing just how effective this year's WRs will actually be during the season. There's a lot of speed and talent in this group but will that translate into great productivity? As a group, they appear deep but how strong are they at the top?

I'm also looking forward to seeing consistent separation and time for Teddy to throw. One of the knocks I've seen with Teddy is that he's sometimes too fast in his progressions (there really is such a fine line here -- we're talking less than a second per target). Regardless, I think our crop has the ability to get consistent separation (at least one per play). At least, I hope so.

[losperros]

I'm also looking forward to seeing consistent separation and time for Teddy to throw. One of the knocks I've seen with Teddy is that he's sometimes too fast in his progressions (there really is such a fine line here -- we're talking less than a second per target). Regardless, I think our crop has the ability to get consistent separation (at least one per play). At least, I hope so.

Agreed. Actually, if what we're seeing from the preseason passing game is any indication, then it appears as if this group of WRs are exactly what the offense needs. I'm not so sure we'll see a lot of long passes. Some, yes, but I think Teddy will be getting the ball out of his hands quickly and the Vikings will rely a lot on YAC. This group of WRs can get separation and they can run after the catch.

I'd have to go along with the view that the Vikings have a decent group of WRs this year, even though they may not have one individual stud.

[jackal]

IN 2009 Farve made medicore guys look good..

none of the other groups, stayed together very long..

[DK Sweets]

Sidney Rice was really good, he just couldn't stay healthy. Percy Harvin had (has?) all the talent in the world. Visanthe Shiancoe was the only "mediocre" guy who was elevated by Favre.

[PacificNorseWest]

Sidney Rice was really good, he just couldn't stay healthy. Percy Harvin had (has?) all the talent in the world. Visanthe Shiancoe was the only "mediocre" guy who was elevated by Favre.

Sort of agree on Rice. He was always talented and good, but Favre elevated him to that "very good."

When Percy first got traded to Seattle, I was one caller away from being on air on a local sports radio show here trying to explain to people that Percy is extremely talented and if paired with the right quarterback, is invaluable. I think Minnesota fans are really the only ones who remember that the Vikings had 2 MVP's in 2012 and had Percy not gotten hurt, not only could he have won MVP (a stretch, but not far fetched at all), but AP probably doesn't go off to the extent that he did in the second half of the season.

Harvin just has a bad attitude and it's a bummer because he can be great.

[Mothman]

Sort of agree on Rice. He was always talented and good, but Favre elevated him to that "very good."

When Percy first got traded to Seattle, I was one caller away from being on air on a local sports radio show here trying to explain to people that Percy is extremely talented and if paired with the right quarterback, is invaluable. I think Minnesota fans are really the only ones who remember that the Vikings had 2 MVP's in 2012 and had Percy not gotten hurt, not only could he have won MVP (a stretch, but not far fetched at all), but AP probably doesn't go off to the extent that he did in the second half of the season.

Peterson was already "going off" before Harvin got hurt but it's possible he woudl have rushed for less yards overall had Harvin stayed healthy. Nevertheless, he was in the midst of a 182 yard rushing performance against Seattle when Harvin went down and that game followed a 123 yard performance against Tampa Bay and a 153 yard performance against Arizona. In their words, his hot streak was already underway so he might have racked up 2000+ with or without Harvin in the lineup.

Anyway, I agree that Harvin is extremely talented.

[Mothman]

Regarding the idea that Favre elevated mediocre receivers in 2009: I don't buy it. That sort of "elevation" is almost always mutual. It really can't be one-sided because all a QB can do is give a receiver opportunities. He can't run the routes, get open, catch the ball, break tackles, run after catch, elevate over defenders, etc. Rice's performance was superb that year. He just couldn't seem to stay healthy much before or after 2009.

[Demi]

It really can't be one-sided because all a QB can do is give a receiver opportunities. He can't run the routes, get open, catch the ball, break tackles, run after catch, elevate over defenders, etc.

No, but even if the receiver does all those things, it's entirely possible a mediocre quarterback could make all of it moot with a poorly thrown ball. A lack of confidence to make a throw. Or an inability to read a defense and tell when a receiver is going to be open, or even throw them open. None of which is something you could question with Favre, but all of which were major question marks with the quarterbacks before, and after him.

Rice had as many 100 yard games in 09 with Favre as he had the rest of his career, combined. That seems pretty one-sided...yeah he was injury prone (which I was berated for saying the entire time he was here...) but that's five entire seasons worth of play, he played in 16 games in 09, and 65 games before and after 09.

[DK Sweets]

Demi, I'm having a hard time understanding your argument. Are you trying to say that Rice was a mediocre talent even when healthy? Your post seems to make a better case for him being surrounded by poor QB play for most of his career.

[fiestavike]

I think Patterson is currently the 6th best WR on the team. I'm not sure he is the best KR in the league anymore as he has started to slow down before contact (didn't do that his rookie year) in order to preserve his body. He isn't valuable on special teams in any other capacity. If he weren't a first round pick I think he would be cut. I think if they could get a 6th round pick for him from an AFC team we don't play this year, he will be gone.

[Mothman]

I think Patterson is currently the 6th best WR on the team. I'm not sure he is the best KR in the league anymore as he has started to slow down before contact (didn't do that his rookie year) in order to preserve his body. He isn't valuable on special teams in any other capacity. If he weren't a first round pick I think he would be cut. I think if they could get a 6th round pick for him from an AFC team we don't play this year, he will be gone.

I seriously doubt that and I don't think he's the 6th best WR on the team either. The Vikes aren't treating him as if they believe that and I see no reason to believe it. I certainly don't think he'd be cut if he weren't a first round pick! He was a raw prospect coming out of college and the Vikes knew that so I doubt they're so impatient that they're ready to trade him for a 6th round pick after two seasons, one of which actually went pretty well. I certainly hope they're more patient than that.

[fiestavike]

I seriously doubt that and I don't think he's the 6th best WR on the team either. The Vikes aren't treating him as if they believe that and I see no reason to believe it. I certainly don't think he'd be cut if he weren't a first round pick! He was a raw prospect coming out of college and the Vikes knew that so I doubt they're so impatient that they're ready to trade him for a 6th round pick after two seasons, one of which actually went pretty well. I certainly hope they're more patient than that.

You could make the argument that Diggs is the 6th best, but it seems clear to me that Thielen is more valuable to the team because of versatility, and I think he's a significantly better WR. When I think of the top 6 WRs on this team and ask who would it hurt the team the least to lose, its a pretty easy decision to me.

[Mothman]

You could make the argument that Diggs is the 6th best, but it seems clear to me that Thielen is more valuable to the team because of versatility, and I think he's a significantly better WR. When I think of the top 6 WRs on this team and ask who would it hurt the team the least to lose, its a pretty easy decision to me.

I don't see it that way at all. I don't think Thielen is either more versatile or more valuable than Patterson, who can play special teams, WR or play out of the backfield. Thielen is the better route-runner at this point but not the playmaker Patterson can be when he's given the opportunity. If Patterson's ability continues to be squandered, as I believe it was last season by both himself and (to a lesser extent) his coaches, then his value is minimal. However, if he continues to improve ("continues" because he's shown signs of it so far this summer) and he's put in position to make plays, he has considerably more talent and upside than Thielen.

At this point, I'm far from convinced Johnson will be a better WR than Patterson, much less Thielen. Patterson is carrying the stigma of first round draft status and the expectations that come with it. Last year, he committed the ultimate sin for a first round draft pick: he disappointed people with high expectations. Consequently, I think there's been an overreaction in the opposite direction.

I'll say it yet again: he was a raw talent coming out of college. Everyone knew it. It was unrealistic to think he'd step in and learn the nuances of the NFL game quickly, and without some serious growing pains, when he had just one year of major college football experience. From the moment he was drafted, those growing pains were to be expected and the need for patience was inevitable.

My view is that when a team drafts a raw player to develop him, he deserves the time to develop. I want to see what he does this season, with another year in the same offense. If the nice move he put on a TB defender to score an easy TD the other night was any indication, he might look more invaluable than expendable by the end of 2015.

[PurpleMustReign]

Unbelievable... A rookie who hasn't played a regular season game is ahead of a two year veteran.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[fiestavike]

Patterson is carrying the stigma of first round draft status and the expectations that come with it. Last year, he committed the ultimate sin for a first round draft pick: he disappointed people with high expectations. Consequently, I think there's been an overreaction in the opposite direction.

I agree with that.

I'll say it yet again: he was a raw talent coming out of college. Everyone knew it. It was unrealistic to think he'd step in and learn the nuances of the NFL game quickly, and without some serious growing pains, when he had just one year of major college football experience. From the moment he was drafted, those growing pains were to be expected and the need for patience was inevitable.

I agree with this as well.

My view is that when a team drafts a raw player to develop him, he deserves the time to develop. I want to see what he does this season, with another year in the same offense. If the nice move he put on a TB defender to score an easy TD the other night was any indication, he might look more invaluable than expendable by the end of 2015.

That's possible, and if they think he is trending in that direction and showing enough improvement then I suspect they won't move him. What I contend is that Jarius Wright has developed into a real contributor, they got nice surprises in Johnson and Thielen and possibly in Diggs, and they added an established player in Mike Wallace. The circumstances have changed a lot since they drafted Patterson. I think there are two things we disagree about. 1. is our level of optimism that Patterson will fulfill his potential. I don't contend its impossible or that he isn't getting better, our disagreement is just a matter of degrees on this point. 2. is that you think Patterson, the player he is today, is of more value than some of the other top 5 receivers on the roster, while I do not. He's certainly more athletic and explosive than almost anyone, but to me Thielen is clearly a better all around WR.

Yes if Patterson is going to pan out it will take patience. I'm not sure the Vikings need to be patient, because I think they've collected a very strong group of WRs. Obviously I would keep him above guys who were our 4th, 5th, maybe even 2nd and 3rd WRs for the Vikings in years passed. Today, not so much.

Also, if you were to assume that he is the #6 wr, its worth comparing him to other players who are on the bubble at their position group in order to make a decision on how to proceed. That might make a clear case for keeping him, or it might not.

I think we understand each other so not trying to argue, I just wanted to clarify my position and point out that we agree about a few things regarding Patterson.