PacificNorseWest wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2019 12:48 pm
It's just hard to judge completely when the offseason has pretty much just begun. I think the Vikings FO is very much aware of the state of the offensive line. And I'm sure they may have liked a FA or two, but all the guys that could help the team cost more than the Vikings could afford for any one player.
It's easy to say we should have signed a FA lineman, but who is everyone suggesting? It's free agency, so these players, as I alluded to, got to choose where they wanted to go. More times than not, it's the team that can pay them the most...Minnesota wasn't that team. They wanted to bring back Easton...The only reason why the didn't is becuase N.O. offered more money. That's why you see funds being redirected at guys like Stephens becuase even though they need big help along the offensive line, they still needed a replacement for Richardson (who they also wanted to keep, but couldn't afford).
I'm just not seeing the options out there that would benefit the team more than grabbing a few Oline guys in the draft. They'll be cheaper, younger and better. Now, if they go through this draft and don't really address this issue, then yeah...I'll agree.
And I think Elflein is above average and Reiff is serviceable...O'neill has shown a TON of potential and he may be the teams new LT...This to the point of the entire Oline being below par. That's just not true. They really only need 2 starters and they'll be just fine.
Stephens was signed before Easton took a trip. Oniel looked like he has potential, he was still a below par starter. Efline was below par last season, par being averaged. Reiff gave up 12 pressures in one game last season. He's not serviceable. Its just been so long that we've had stellar oline play, we forget what it looks like.
Here was a potential fix for the oline this season. Take the money we gave Stephans and trade for Zeitler. Give up a 3 in exchange for swapping places with their 4th. Move Oniell to LT. I would also have cut Reiff as a post June cut and saved 9 million. This draft would net me Ford or which ever elite LT falls to me at 18 add a Simmons or Lawrence or the best player available in the 2nd and another guard in the 3rd.
I could skip DT all together and resign Richardson with the money saved from Reiff. No need to sign Shamar at this point, I would still have hill who looked ok as a LT but bad as a RT last season.
Dakotavike wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:43 pm
Speaking of Cap space, can somebody please explain something to me? I'm clearly not very smart on the subject but I thought I saw that we only have like 1.8 million or something left in cap space. Since I haven't heard that anybody other than Grif restructured their contracts how are we going to pay any more FA's when we still have to pay the rookie class? I'm probably missing something but I just don't see where that money is coming from.
There is a top 51 rule. Im not full clear on it but only the top 51 contracts count so when they sign someone like Bailey... Someone's 500k fell off for his 1000000. So in theory we got Bailey for 500k.
Ok thanks YikesVikes, I appreciate it. That helps but I'm still a little confused. If we just signed Kline, as mentioned, how are we paying him if nobody other than Grif restructured and we have less than $2 mil BEFORE paying rookie class? I guess it doesn't matter as they obviously worked some magic but I'm just trying to gain some knowledge. All that being said I'm on board with the Kline signing. I know he had a bad year last year but my understanding is that he was one of the league's better guards in 2017. And hey, we just doubled the amount of guards we had at the beginning of the day so what's not to like?!?
YikesVikes wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:47 pm
I don't like the Kline signing but seems like he's an ok pass blocker based on PFF but PFF sucks at oline
He can't be worse than Remmers can he? CAN HE?!?
Unfortunately, he isnt very good. But I believe we have the worst Oline in the NFL, and Kline is better then Remmers. And Reiff. 2 members of the Oline Rick was so proud of. I'm hoping Kubiac and Co can actually coach him up. And they know something about drafting on the offensive side of the ball. Im sure Rick is going to offer Zimmer the first pick in the draft again, lets hope its not a DB, anything on the Dline would be good though. I bet Rick gets 1-2 Oline, and not till after round 2.
Unfortunately, he isnt very good. But I believe we have the worst Oline in the NFL, and Kline is better then Remmers. And Reiff. 2 members of the Oline Rick was so proud of. I'm hoping Kubiac and Co can actually coach him up. And they know something about drafting on the offensive side of the ball. Im sure Rick is going to offer Zimmer the first pick in the draft again, lets hope its not a DB, anything on the Dline would be good though. I bet Rick gets 1-2 Oline, and not till after round 2.
And I bet you’re wrong
The saddest thing in life is wasted talent and the choices you make will shape your life forever.
-Chazz Palminteri
There is a top 51 rule. Im not full clear on it but only the top 51 contracts count so when they sign someone like Bailey... Someone's 500k fell off for his 1000000. So in theory we got Bailey for 500k.
Ok thanks YikesVikes, I appreciate it. That helps but I'm still a little confused. If we just signed Kline, as mentioned, how are we paying him if nobody other than Grif restructured and we have less than $2 mil BEFORE paying rookie class? I guess it doesn't matter as they obviously worked some magic but I'm just trying to gain some knowledge. All that being said I'm on board with the Kline signing. I know he had a bad year last year but my understanding is that he was one of the league's better guards in 2017. And hey, we just doubled the amount of guards we had at the beginning of the day so what's not to like?!?
They had more than $2M, it was a little over $6M if I recall correctly. But some of that (call it $2M) will need to go to the rookies they draft.
So they are very tight on cap space right now, depending on how this deal was structured. Keep in mind you also want some cap for the season for emergency signings ala Jake Long a couple seasons back.
Unfortunately, he isnt very good. But I believe we have the worst Oline in the NFL, and Kline is better then Remmers. And Reiff. 2 members of the Oline Rick was so proud of. I'm hoping Kubiac and Co can actually coach him up. And they know something about drafting on the offensive side of the ball. Im sure Rick is going to offer Zimmer the first pick in the draft again, lets hope its not a DB, anything on the Dline would be good though. I bet Rick gets 1-2 Oline, and not till after round 2.
We don't have the worst line in the NFL, or at least we didn't. The Raiders and Miami were much worse for example, and funny enough, TN was worse at protecting the QB last year. Much better at run blocking, so I guess we are starting to see what the emphasis on offense will be next season.
Kline was basically TN's Remmers, overpaid for his performance, with TN fans happy to have him gone. The big difference in TN is, the titans replaced their Remmers with Saffold, while we replaced our Remmers with...Remmers.
Unfortunately, he isnt very good. But I believe we have the worst Oline in the NFL, and Kline is better then Remmers. And Reiff. 2 members of the Oline Rick was so proud of. I'm hoping Kubiac and Co can actually coach him up. And they know something about drafting on the offensive side of the ball. Im sure Rick is going to offer Zimmer the first pick in the draft again, lets hope its not a DB, anything on the Dline would be good though. I bet Rick gets 1-2 Oline, and not till after round 2.
We don't have the worst line in the NFL, or at least we didn't. The Raiders and Miami were much worse for example, and funny enough, TN was worse at protecting the QB last year. Much better at run blocking, so I guess we are starting to see what the emphasis on offense will be next season.
Kline was basically TN's Remmers, overpaid for his performance, with TN fans happy to have him gone. The big difference in TN is, the titans replaced their Remmers with Saffold, while we replaced our Remmers with...Remmers.
I guess I don’t understand why he’s being compared to Remmers? Because this past year he graded out similar? 2015, 16 and 17 he was a top 30 guard in the nfl. And he just recently had his worst year since 2014. Before we jump to conclusion let’s actually see the guy play. Because he was an average to slightly above average guard 3 years in a row. And in 2017 he was the #12 pass blocking guard in the entire nfl. Remmers was never an average guard. Kline was for 3 years. He’s definitely an upgrade over Remmers
The saddest thing in life is wasted talent and the choices you make will shape your life forever.
-Chazz Palminteri
And FYI, in 79 career starts, Kline has given up 10 sacks. Remmers gave up 6 sacks in 16 games last year. That alone should end any sort of comparison. But we have guys on here saying “he’s not very good”? He’s not going to knock your socks off but he’s a solid OG that excels in pass protection and fits our zone scheme. For all the guys that say they can’t stand PFF and think it’s bogus, some of you are putting an awful lot of weight into his grade this past year but don’t want to look at the previous 3 years. I find that odd. Because I’m guessing there aren’t many on here that have actually watched him play and are simply going off of a single season grade. He’s also started 46 consecutive games. Most of any offensive lineman in the nfl. I just find it funny that guys complain we aren’t addressing OL but when we do, the same people still complain? Come on guys
The saddest thing in life is wasted talent and the choices you make will shape your life forever.
-Chazz Palminteri
Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2019 10:25 pm
And FYI, in 79 career starts, Kline has given up 10 sacks. Remmers gave up 6 sacks in 16 games last year. That alone should end any sort of comparison. But we have guys on here saying “he’s not very good”? He’s not going to knock your socks off but he’s a solid OG that excels in pass protection and fits our zone scheme. For all the guys that say they can’t stand PFF and think it’s bogus, some of you are putting an awful lot of weight into his grade this past year but don’t want to look at the previous 3 years. I find that odd. Because I’m guessing there aren’t many on here that have actually watched him play and are simply going off of a single season grade. He’s also started 46 consecutive games. Most of any offensive lineman in the nfl. I just find it funny that guys complain we aren’t addressing OL but when we do, the same people still complain? Come on guys
I put my stock in TN thinking Kline wasnt good, not PFF.
There's not many people that pay attention to the Tennessee Titans, let alone to their offensive guards.
I don't put weight into PFF. I'll wait to see how this turns out. I just find it funny how any side can be adamant one way or other. The only thing I can add is that I do actually remember Remmers prior to coming onto the Vikings, as he played for the Panthers. I don't know if it was because they were in the SB a year there or what, but he was gosh awful and a glaring weak spot of that line in the passing game. I know nothing of Kline specifically in that regard and can only say that the Titans have had one of the better offensive lines in the NFL the last couple of games. That offense was heavily reliant on the run game and PA though, so this could be a great indication of what Kubiak and co. want to do with the offense.
PacificNorseWest wrote: ↑Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:23 am
There's not many people that pay attention to the Tennessee Titans, let alone to their offensive guards.
I don't put weight into PFF. I'll wait to see how this turns out. I just find it funny how any side can be adamant one way or other. The only thing I can add is that I do actually remember Remmers prior to coming onto the Vikings, as he played for the Panthers. I don't know if it was because they were in the SB a year there or what, but he was gosh awful and a glaring weak spot of that line in the passing game. I know nothing of Kline specifically in that regard and can only say that the Titans have had one of the better offensive lines in the NFL the last couple of games. That offense was heavily reliant on the run game and PA though, so this could be a great indication of what Kubiak and co. want to do with the offense.
TN fans pay attention, and they are just as happy he is gone as we are happy Remmers is. He got worse from 2017 to 2018 because TN switched to zone blocking...the exact scheme Kubiak runs.
PacificNorseWest wrote: ↑Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:23 am
There's not many people that pay attention to the Tennessee Titans, let alone to their offensive guards.
I don't put weight into PFF. I'll wait to see how this turns out. I just find it funny how any side can be adamant one way or other. The only thing I can add is that I do actually remember Remmers prior to coming onto the Vikings, as he played for the Panthers. I don't know if it was because they were in the SB a year there or what, but he was gosh awful and a glaring weak spot of that line in the passing game. I know nothing of Kline specifically in that regard and can only say that the Titans have had one of the better offensive lines in the NFL the last couple of games. That offense was heavily reliant on the run game and PA though, so this could be a great indication of what Kubiak and co. want to do with the offense.
TN fans pay attention, and they are just as happy he is gone as we are happy Remmers is. He got worse from 2017 to 2018 because TN switched to zone blocking...the exact scheme Kubiak runs.
Fair point.
Let's just hope the Vikings heavily address this offensive line in the draft to make this all a moot discussion.
Chris Tomasson
@christomasson
14h
Some additional information on #Vikings Josh Kline contract. Cap number expected to be a little over $3 million. He got a $4M signing bonus & $7.25M is guaranteed. Base salaries expected to be $1.45M for 2019 $4.4M for 2020 & $4.75M for 2021. And there are workout, roster bonuses
3 year (15.75 M)
