Re: 2016 Vikings Free Agency Thread (News, Rumors, Transacti
Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 10:21 pm
According to overthecap.com Andrew Sendejo no guaranteed money after this year. Has $3M roster bonus and $950,000 guaranteed in 16
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2016 Vikings Free Agency Thread (News, Rumors, Transactions)
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Re: 2016 Vikings Free Agency Thread (News, Rumors, Transacti
Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 11:57 pm
Ok? and when he actually got his chance to start a full season, look what he did. Like anyone had any clue who he was when he played for SD.Mothman wrote: No, 2 seasons with the Vikings and 4 in the NFL.
Re: 2016 Vikings Free Agency Thread (News, Rumors, Transacti
Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 12:00 am
It would give us, arguably, one of the best defensive backfields in the NFL. 4 solid CBs with Smith and Iloka in the back endPurpleKoolaid wrote:Iloka wouldnt have the impact a really good T or G FA would have had, but it would be a huge upgrade over Sendejo. Huge. Would make the offseason till draft day for me.
Re: 2016 Vikings Free Agency Thread (News, Rumors, Transacti
Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 12:02 am
You do realize the league year hasnt even started yet right? Does anyone remember any word of us going after Joseph hard? I sure don't. Yet right when FA hit and 4 ET, he was signed. Relax peoplePurpleKoolaid wrote:Its like Groundhog day. Same thing for the past 10 years. They dont fix the Oline, or improve it, and they dont fix the safety position.
Maybe they are planning on going Oline DBs in the draft.
Re: 2016 Vikings Free Agency Thread (News, Rumors, Transacti
Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 12:06 am
All offense FAs aside, I love how Zim is going after all these Bengals. There is much less chance for a first year slump with these guys since they already know this scheme. I don't care what anyone says, all I know is I am ALL IN for Iloka at this point 
Re: 2016 Vikings Free Agency Thread (News, Rumors, Transacti
Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:56 am
I have looked. As I've said, my assessment is based on what he did. You were obviously more impressed by his performance than I was, which is fine, but we've argued about this subject before so we already know we don't see eye to eye on it. I don't think he had a particularly impressive season by NFL o-line standards last year and consequently, I think the Vikings offer is appropriate.Pondering Her Percy wrote: Ok? and when he actually got his chance to start a full season, look what he did.
Re: 2016 Vikings Free Agency Thread (News, Rumors, Transacti
Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 8:51 am
I agree this afternoon will be the start...Pondering Her Percy wrote: You do realize the league year hasnt even started yet right? Does anyone remember any word of us going after Joseph hard? I sure don't. Yet right when FA hit and 4 ET, he was signed. Relax people
The offense line was the number 1 priority going into the new season.
But all we have heard about is all the defensive players Zimmer is interested in. What about the offensive players Turner is interested in??
If they wait and draft some offensive players in the draft. I'm not sure how much they will be contributing this season.
Stay tuned
Re: 2016 Vikings Free Agency Thread (News, Rumors, Transacti
Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 9:28 am
For starters, that's simply not true. There were rumors of our interest in Osemele, widely considered the top OL FA. Secondly, what we have heard does not necessarily reflect the team's actual interests. Zim's been linked to several players from the Bengal's D, which is natural but also obvious for a reporter trying to speculate.halfgiz wrote: I agree this afternoon will be the start...
The offense line was the number 1 priority going into the new season.
But all we have heard about is all the defensive players Zimmer is interested in. What about the offensive players Turner is interested in??
If they wait and draft some offensive players in the draft. I'm not sure how much they will be contributing this season.
Stay tuned
Sit tight folks and be patient, tis the season!
Re: 2016 Vikings Free Agency Thread (News, Rumors, Transacti
Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 9:30 am
In addition to frequently faking out the Brown's GM, Spielman is also quite adept at faking out the Vikings Fan Base.
Little talk at this point means NOTHING.
Little talk at this point means NOTHING.
Re: 2016 Vikings Free Agency Thread (News, Rumors, Transacti
Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 9:51 am
You guys have been pretty aggressive with Spielman at GM, so idk if that is warranted.PurpleKoolaid wrote:Its like Groundhog day. Same thing for the past 10 years. They dont fix the Oline, or improve it, and they dont fix the safety position.
Maybe they are planning on going Oline DBs in the draft.
Re: 2016 Vikings Free Agency Thread (News, Rumors, Transacti
Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 9:56 am
I think people are overreacting a bit on the OL issues. It's likely that some patience will be required when dealing with it. There were so many bad OLs in the NFL this year, that there will likely be a run on them in free agency and the draft. Rather than pay above market price on on a free agent OL, I'd rather use that money on other positions that represent better value. A team can 'reach' on a free-agent just like they can reach in the draft.
Spending money on other positions indirectly helps mask problems on the OL. Say we spend money on Iloka, Nelson, or other defensive FAs. Our defense presumably gets better. That means the offense won't have to carry as much of the burden of winning games. The better our defense is, the more we can run the ball, and our OL does run block well. Say we don't draft Whitehair, or any of the other OLs that might be around when we draft at 23, but instead take a WR. Sure, Teddy might not have enough time to throw, but hopefully he'll now have a big WR he's feels confident throwing the ball to while under pressure. People were, rightfully, frustrated at times with our inability to throw deep, and part of that was protection issues. What they seem to forget is that we went 11-5 and should have advanced in the playoffs. Our 'play good d, run the ball' old-school approach worked pretty well. I like Teddy, but it might be possible that he is best suited to a quick hitting offense, where he takes 3 step drops and gets rid of the ball, as he wasn't very accurate on deep passes. In that case, the OL is still important, but this type of offense can mitigate weaknesses in protection.
Patience is important while building an OL. If the value isn't there this year, then you look for it next year. I'm more concerned with improving the team as a whole, as opposed to a single position. I don't agree with people that say our OL this year looks an awful lot like last year. With Sully and Load coming back, it's like we get two new starters. Now, especially with Load, it's unknown if he'll be close to the player he was, and Sully has a back injury, which is always uncertain long-term. That being said, our OL should be improved by having them back, as well as the hiring of a pretty legit OL coach in Sporano.
We obviously need to, and probably will, take a few OLs in the draft, maybe as early as round 1. I agree we need to improve the unit. I'm just not in panic mode, and don't feel that we need to overpay a FA or reach on a draft pick to do it immediately. This is the NFL. Things change very quickly. I'd rather look for great value regardless of position. If the best value is at CB, LB, or RB, you pick those guys up, even if you have solid starters. Look at the Lions. They had the best DL in football a couple years ago. They passed on Aaron Donald in the draft (I live in the D and so many people here wanted Donald before the draft, so this isn't just hindsight) because they had a solid DL, and took a TE instead. Well, they now have a weakness at DT. Compare that to the Jets, who had a very strong DL but took another DL in the draft. They were looking to the future, and knew that the best way to have a great roster for years to come is make sure you have the best possible players, regardless of position. A strength now could be a weakness in a few years.
I look at the salary cap as an EV, or expected value exercise. Basically, EV is return on investment. The EV of free agents tends to be poor, because they get paid more than they are worth, due to the bidding wars that ensue. Sure, it might seem awesome to have Suh, or Osmele on your team, but if you overpay, then the transaction was EV-negative. If Suh is worth 10 million a year, and you're paying 12, it's a bad deal, even if he's a star. The real value in free-agency is on mid level guys like Munnerlyn and Joseph. I loved these signing at the time, and obviously love them now. They were guys that were worth more than we were paying them, since there wasn't the huge bidding war driving their prices up. From an EV perspective, you're getting way better value signing your own guys, since they both know the system, and you don't have to bid against other teams for them. Sure, their value on the open market is factored into their contract, but a good GM will have an easier time finding value when resigning his own players.
All of this changes for teams that absolutely are in win-now mode, like the Patriots or last year's Broncos. For the vast majority of NFL teams, that is not the case, and a team should always be looking at improving a team for the long run, instead of panicking and overspending on a positional weakness.
Spending money on other positions indirectly helps mask problems on the OL. Say we spend money on Iloka, Nelson, or other defensive FAs. Our defense presumably gets better. That means the offense won't have to carry as much of the burden of winning games. The better our defense is, the more we can run the ball, and our OL does run block well. Say we don't draft Whitehair, or any of the other OLs that might be around when we draft at 23, but instead take a WR. Sure, Teddy might not have enough time to throw, but hopefully he'll now have a big WR he's feels confident throwing the ball to while under pressure. People were, rightfully, frustrated at times with our inability to throw deep, and part of that was protection issues. What they seem to forget is that we went 11-5 and should have advanced in the playoffs. Our 'play good d, run the ball' old-school approach worked pretty well. I like Teddy, but it might be possible that he is best suited to a quick hitting offense, where he takes 3 step drops and gets rid of the ball, as he wasn't very accurate on deep passes. In that case, the OL is still important, but this type of offense can mitigate weaknesses in protection.
Patience is important while building an OL. If the value isn't there this year, then you look for it next year. I'm more concerned with improving the team as a whole, as opposed to a single position. I don't agree with people that say our OL this year looks an awful lot like last year. With Sully and Load coming back, it's like we get two new starters. Now, especially with Load, it's unknown if he'll be close to the player he was, and Sully has a back injury, which is always uncertain long-term. That being said, our OL should be improved by having them back, as well as the hiring of a pretty legit OL coach in Sporano.
We obviously need to, and probably will, take a few OLs in the draft, maybe as early as round 1. I agree we need to improve the unit. I'm just not in panic mode, and don't feel that we need to overpay a FA or reach on a draft pick to do it immediately. This is the NFL. Things change very quickly. I'd rather look for great value regardless of position. If the best value is at CB, LB, or RB, you pick those guys up, even if you have solid starters. Look at the Lions. They had the best DL in football a couple years ago. They passed on Aaron Donald in the draft (I live in the D and so many people here wanted Donald before the draft, so this isn't just hindsight) because they had a solid DL, and took a TE instead. Well, they now have a weakness at DT. Compare that to the Jets, who had a very strong DL but took another DL in the draft. They were looking to the future, and knew that the best way to have a great roster for years to come is make sure you have the best possible players, regardless of position. A strength now could be a weakness in a few years.
I look at the salary cap as an EV, or expected value exercise. Basically, EV is return on investment. The EV of free agents tends to be poor, because they get paid more than they are worth, due to the bidding wars that ensue. Sure, it might seem awesome to have Suh, or Osmele on your team, but if you overpay, then the transaction was EV-negative. If Suh is worth 10 million a year, and you're paying 12, it's a bad deal, even if he's a star. The real value in free-agency is on mid level guys like Munnerlyn and Joseph. I loved these signing at the time, and obviously love them now. They were guys that were worth more than we were paying them, since there wasn't the huge bidding war driving their prices up. From an EV perspective, you're getting way better value signing your own guys, since they both know the system, and you don't have to bid against other teams for them. Sure, their value on the open market is factored into their contract, but a good GM will have an easier time finding value when resigning his own players.
All of this changes for teams that absolutely are in win-now mode, like the Patriots or last year's Broncos. For the vast majority of NFL teams, that is not the case, and a team should always be looking at improving a team for the long run, instead of panicking and overspending on a positional weakness.
Re: 2016 Vikings Free Agency Thread (News, Rumors, Transacti
Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 10:10 am
Good Post KurtKeoki
I actually see a scenario where we take some non-need position on Day 1
The OL in the NFL were terrible in 2015, which is probably part of why Osemele got such a silly deal. It is possible that teams will inflate the price of these Free Agents and teams with cap issues or GMs unwilling to commit to such fat contracts will back off. When the draft rolls around there could be a pent up need for OL help and therefore there might be a run of linemen taken in the 1st round. If that happens we might see a top 10 or top 15 talent drop to us when we pick in the 20s. If that happens, BPA should be honored, even if it doesn’t address a need.
Adrian Petersen was a similar BPA type pick for those with longer memories.
I want to see them address the OL woes as much as anyone, but I do not want them to hamper themselves to do it. Paying a Guard $11M a year would have been outright stupid.
Spielman has done pretty well by us over the years, not perfect, but not terrible. I say let him work his magic.
I actually see a scenario where we take some non-need position on Day 1
The OL in the NFL were terrible in 2015, which is probably part of why Osemele got such a silly deal. It is possible that teams will inflate the price of these Free Agents and teams with cap issues or GMs unwilling to commit to such fat contracts will back off. When the draft rolls around there could be a pent up need for OL help and therefore there might be a run of linemen taken in the 1st round. If that happens we might see a top 10 or top 15 talent drop to us when we pick in the 20s. If that happens, BPA should be honored, even if it doesn’t address a need.
Adrian Petersen was a similar BPA type pick for those with longer memories.
I want to see them address the OL woes as much as anyone, but I do not want them to hamper themselves to do it. Paying a Guard $11M a year would have been outright stupid.
Spielman has done pretty well by us over the years, not perfect, but not terrible. I say let him work his magic.
Re: 2016 Vikings Free Agency Thread (News, Rumors, Transacti
Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 10:33 am
We paid Jennings 9 million....we paid Wallace 11 million. But to pay a top guard in the NFL 11 million is crazymansquatch wrote:
I want to see them address the OL woes as much as anyone, but I do not want them to hamper themselves to do it. Paying a Guard $11M a year would have been outright stupid.
Spielman has done pretty well by us over the years, not perfect, but not terrible. I say let him work his magic.
That's exactly what we are going to be paying Kalil this season. He's going to take that 11 million and run.
I think in the very near future that's going to be the going money for a top guard.
I do think that Spielman & Zimmer has and will do a good job!
I'm just tired of seeing the offensive line getting table scraps.
Re: 2016 Vikings Free Agency Thread (News, Rumors, Transacti
Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 10:34 am
I don't think they run block all that well. Peterson makes up for a lot of shoddy blocking on his own.kurtkeoki wrote:I think people are overreacting a bit on the OL issues. It's likely that some patience will be required when dealing with it. There were so many bad OLs in the NFL this year, that there will likely be a run on them in free agency and the draft. Rather than pay above market price on on a free agent OL, I'd rather use that money on other positions that represent better value. A team can 'reach' on a free-agent just like they can reach in the draft.
Spending money on other positions indirectly helps mask problems on the OL. Say we spend money on Iloka, Nelson, or other defensive FAs. Our defense presumably gets better. That means the offense won't have to carry as much of the burden of winning games. The better our defense is, the more we can run the ball, and our OL does run block well.
We all remember their record and it's easy to say they should have advanced in the playoffs, that advancement was prevented by a missed short field goal at the end of the game, but in the bigger picture, they also failed to advance because their offense was unable to score even one touchdown in that game. The Vikings defense already carries a heavy burden when it comes to winning games.Say we don't draft Whitehair, or any of the other OLs that might be around when we draft at 23, but instead take a WR. Sure, Teddy might not have enough time to throw, but hopefully he'll now have a big WR he's feels confident throwing the ball to while under pressure. People were, rightfully, frustrated at times with our inability to throw deep, and part of that was protection issues. What they seem to forget is that we went 11-5 and should have advanced in the playoffs.
Time will tell. You definitely make some good points above but speaking of people forgetting, I think people forget that lines with Loadholt and Sullivan got Ponder beat up and led to a lot of negative plays. Neither player has really excelled in pass protection and, as you pointed out, they're coming off injuries and we don't know if they will even return with the ability to consistently play up to their pre-injury standards.Our 'play good d, run the ball' old-school approach worked pretty well. I like Teddy, but it might be possible that he is best suited to a quick hitting offense, where he takes 3 step drops and gets rid of the ball, as he wasn't very accurate on deep passes. In that case, the OL is still important, but this type of offense can mitigate weaknesses in protection.
Patience is important while building an OL. If the value isn't there this year, then you look for it next year. I'm more concerned with improving the team as a whole, as opposed to a single position. I don't agree with people that say our OL this year looks an awful lot like last year. With Sully and Load coming back, it's like we get two new starters. Now, especially with Load, it's unknown if he'll be close to the player he was, and Sully has a back injury, which is always uncertain long-term. That being said, our OL should be improved by having them back, as well as the hiring of a pretty legit OL coach in Sporano.
As for Sparano: has he ever even had an extended run as a successful NFL o-line coach? I don't think so. In fact, his overall NFL coaching record doesn't inspire a great deal of confidence. I'm hopeful he's the right man for the job. He seems to be a respected coach but then again, so is Jeff Davidson, who could also be described as a "pretty legit OL coach".
Yes, and weaknesses can cripple a football team, which is why they need to be addressed. I think we can all agree that reaching out of desperation can backfire but the Vikes need not do that to address and improve their o-line now and frankly, addressing some of these OL issues now would be looking to the future. Those of us concerned about the line aren't just concerned because we want the immediate gratification of improvement over last year's performance. Kalil and Loadholt are in the last years of their contracts. Are they a part of the team's future after 2016? If not, who will be playing tackle? Clemmings and Bykowski? Sullivan's contract expires after 2017. Berger's certainly not the long term future at center and it's unclear how much quality football Sullivan will have left in him. Fusco's under contract and will likely continue starting at guard but how good is he? The other guard position is up in the air.We obviously need to, and probably will, take a few OLs in the draft, maybe as early as round 1. I agree we need to improve the unit. I'm just not in panic mode, and don't feel that we need to overpay a FA or reach on a draft pick to do it immediately. This is the NFL. Things change very quickly. I'd rather look for great value regardless of position. If the best value is at CB, LB, or RB, you pick those guys up, even if you have solid starters. Look at the Lions. They had the best DL in football a couple years ago. They passed on Aaron Donald in the draft (I live in the D and so many people here wanted Donald before the draft, so this isn't just hindsight) because they had a solid DL, and took a TE instead. Well, they now have a weakness at DT. Compare that to the Jets, who had a very strong DL but took another DL in the draft. They were looking to the future, and knew that the best way to have a great roster for years to come is make sure you have the best possible players, regardless of position. A strength now could be a weakness in a few years.
The quality of the depth behind the presumed starters look shaky and uncertain at best so working on the o-line now has little to do with panic and everything to do with smart team-building and an eye toward the future as well as the present.
Re: 2016 Vikings Free Agency Thread (News, Rumors, Transacti
Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 10:40 am
Bengals closing in on a deal with George Iloka. ..... dammit! I am beginning to think that the Vikings ate not going to get any free agents. Hopefully they sign Boone, I would be fine with the safety from Arizona too.