Vikings Message Board.Com

PurpleMustReign wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:45 am

YikesVikes wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2019 1:16 am

I agree that this class was a weak free agent class. I also did not expect them to sign anyone. However you have to admit that some of their dealings have been very peculiar. For instance, not extending or reducing Rudolph salary. I don't believe we will resolve the offensive line in the draft. If it was a defense that whole I would be very confident it will get filled but the way we have been addressing holes the last 2 years leaves me with doubt. Shamar Stephens at 4 million a year is laughable when we have almost nothing at the offensive line. We tagged Anthony Harris for the same amount of money that haha Clinton-Dix signed for. I am thinking it's time that spielman be fired. No plans for grooming a DT in last seasons draft. A surplus of DEs and we keep drafting each season.

I forgot about Stephen. So that's Barr and Stephen that they can sign but not one OL. Not one.
What is the plan here? Turn the other way and hope the problem fixes itself? Let Kubiak do his magic?
Every off-season I hear about how you can't draft OL to fix the problem immediately. Yet somehow people are saying to be patient because the fmdraft is coming. Really? So somehow we are going to get a good (not even great} OL through the draft? Why didn't we do it before then? It would have been cheaper.
It just astounds me how excuses fly out every off-season for the same problem. THE SAME DAMN PROBLEM.

Dude they are bringing OG Josh Kline is on a visit this week. Just because we didnt jump in and overpay mediocre at best players like Ja'Wuan James, Turner and Sweezy doesnt mean we cant find solid offensive lineman still. We're interested in both Kline and Schraeder. You have the attitude of "hey we need a guard so lets just sign a guard". That's not how it works. You have LEGITIMATE bums out there gobbling up $7+ million a year because teams went dumpster diving at the start of free agency. Do you want Spielman to do that? So we can give that guy a 4 year contract and cut him in two soaking dead money? But I feel like that's what would appease 90% of the Vikings fan base. Nick Easton just got a 4 year contract paying him $6 million a year for god sakes. And he's coming off neck surgery no less. We're going to get an offensive lineman or two in free agency and we'll get one for half the price of someone like Billy Turner or Ju'Wuan and guess what, that guy will probably be at worst, equivalent play to guys like James and Turner. I can already tell you Josh Kline and Ryan Schraeder both are.

The only thing Spielman truly missed on when it comes to OL this offseason is not trading for Zeitler. Outside of that, the free agent pool was quite disgusting.

PurpleKoolaid wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:21 am Every player in the NFL has injury issues.

Wrong but ok....

But lets try and protect Rick from another failed Olineman. Because thats what important. Not Rick making this a better team since he came to the Vikings. He is like our own Matt Millen.

You know what PK....do me a favor. Tell me who you would have picked at #4 in the 2012 NFL draft? I'm guessing you probably dont recall but our 3 biggest needs that year were CB, WR and LT. I'm sure you'll run to google and try and find the best player in that class and say "yeah we should have taken him but Ricky doesnt know what he is doing" but either way, please tell me.

And all the stuff on Kalil after his 2012 season.....so dont sit there and try to play dumb saying "I'm protecting Ricky". The guy was a stud his rookie year. Spielman cant control what happens. That's on the player. And Kalil's knees started to fail along with his confidence. That isnt something you know is going to happen. If he was a bum from the start, I would 100% be sitting here saying that was a miss on Spielmans part just like I did with Patterson. But that is not the case and you know it.

Trending upwards, with rookie left tackle Matt Kalil being exactly as advertised.

How solid? Thankfully, we can answer that question pretty accurately thanks to sites like ProFootballFocus.com. We used PFF's rankings last week to help illustrate how well Vikings rookie left tackle Matt Kalil has been playing this season. Kalil's presence has turned around an offensive line that was very problematic in 2011.

The 4th overall pick performing well isn't that surprising. We expected Kalil to help out right away and he is doing just that. But PFF's recap of Sunday's game between the Vikings and Packers had some eye-opening information about other players on the Vikings offensive line.

The fourth overall pick of the 2012 NFL draft will never garner as much attention as the three players picked before him. Luck, RGIII, and Trent Richardson are skill players that are enjoying successful rookie campaigns. But that doesn't make Kalil any less valuable. Thanks to Pro Football Focus, Kalil's value is now more quantifiable.

So even after his "worst" game--which wasn't noticeably bad compared to how a lot of his teammates played in Chicago--Kalil is still the 8th best overall and 2nd highest rated in the NFC.

Kalil is being noticed in another important area--Pro Bowl voting. He is currently the leading vote-getter at tackle in the NFC. The rookie out of USC may never get the high-wattage publicity of his draft mates, but a free trip to Hawaii at the end of the season isn't bad either.

But either way, I'll wait on your draft pick from 2012......

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:41 pm Spielman has attempted to better the offense, he just sucks at it. Even his two best finds, Diggs and Theilen, were the result of Scott Turner's scouting (Diggs) and being lucky enough to have Adam play college ball at Mankato and being from MN. He is from anywhere else and he is probably on another team right now.

YikesVikes and you are both depressing me and ruining an otherwise great Tuesday...

Re signed Dan Bailey to 1 yr 1 Million. 250K guaranteed.

http://www.startribune.com/vikings-re-s ... 507353292/

One thing I'll say for Rick in terms of his offensive moves that should provide some hope:

He's due

He's had a lot of misses and some really bad luck. The way I look at it, he's been far better, and maybe luckier, on the defensive side, and the Vikings have managed to keep that talent in the fold. So if Spielman can get a lucky turn this offseason with his offensive moves, ala signing Case Keenum as his 3rd string QB in 2017, then maybe, just maybe, the entire team can surprise to the upside.

And it's not like he needs to address the skill positions. He's got to find that OL talent, which, luckily for him and for us, can be found in the later rounds of each draft as easily as in the earlier rounds. And this is fairly flat OL class, which means there isn't a huge drop off in terms of talent or potential from the top guys to the guys who should be on the board in the later rounds. With a little luck and great coaching plus the continued improvement of guys like O'Neill, well, there is reason for hope yet.

VikingLord wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2019 1:49 pm One thing I'll say for Rick in terms of his offensive moves that should provide some hope:

He's due

He's had a lot of misses and some really bad luck. The way I look at it, he's been far better, and maybe luckier, on the defensive side, and the Vikings have managed to keep that talent in the fold. So if Spielman can get a lucky turn this offseason with his offensive moves, ala signing Case Keenum as his 3rd string QB in 2017, then maybe, just maybe, the entire team can surprise to the upside.

And it's not like he needs to address the skill positions. He's got to find that OL talent, which, luckily for him and for us, can be found in the later rounds of each draft as easily as in the earlier rounds. And this is fairly flat OL class, which means there isn't a huge drop off in terms of talent or potential from the top guys to the guys who should be on the board in the later rounds. With a little luck and great coaching plus the continued improvement of guys like O'Neill, well, there is reason for hope yet.

Yes. I'm comfortable with O'Neill and Reiff so long as they stay healthy. I have hope that Aviante Collins can emerge, and some hope that Pat Elflein will be able to rebound. After that though, I am really not comfortable with anybody.

I figured they'd address LB or DT early because the top tier guys won't be there for their second round pick, but the way free agency has shaken out, I think its going to make sense to go OL, with two of the first three picks.

Maelstrom88 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:14 am

CharVike wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:35 am
It won't be fixed through the draft. If we get very lucky we will get one starter. And FA didn't have a bunch of stars either so the CAP didn't even matter. The NFL as a whole is lacking OL and the best will fly off the board early. Maybe our new OL guy will help the most. That's our only chance.

I'm really liking Cody Ford at 18 if Jonah Williams is gone.

I'd love it but I think he's going to be long gone. He might even go to the Packers. He has versatility which is huge in the NFL.

S197 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:42 pm

Maelstrom88 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:14 am

I'm really liking Cody Ford at 18 if Jonah Williams is gone.

I'd love it but I think he's going to be long gone. He might even go to the Packers. He has versatility which is huge in the NFL.

I think the first 10-15 teams know they'll be able to get a starting quality OL in the second round, and we'll see OL slide. Vikings might have the pick of the litter at 18.

fiestavike wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:51 pm

S197 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:42 pm

I'd love it but I think he's going to be long gone. He might even go to the Packers. He has versatility which is huge in the NFL.

I think the first 10-15 teams know they'll be able to get a starting quality OL in the second round, and we'll see OL slide. Vikings might have the pick of the litter at 18.

The OL class is pretty flat, but the need at the position group is high right now. There could be some guys going earlier than they should, but it's hard to say if that will be bad for the Vikings overall. People didn't like the pick of a CB early last year, but it worked out, at least as far as the OL pick was concerned. I still think Hughes was too good to pass up last year and that was the right move even if he didn't play much due to that injury.

I could see something similar happen this year.

VikingLord wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2019 4:23 pm

fiestavike wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:51 pm

I think the first 10-15 teams know they'll be able to get a starting quality OL in the second round, and we'll see OL slide. Vikings might have the pick of the litter at 18.

The OL class is pretty flat, but the need at the position group is high right now. There could be some guys going earlier than they should, but it's hard to say if that will be bad for the Vikings overall. People didn't like the pick of a CB early last year, but it worked out, at least as far as the OL pick was concerned. I still think Hughes was too good to pass up last year and that was the right move even if he didn't play much due to that injury.

I could see something similar happen this year.

I agree that something similar could happen this year as well, based on the projections of a possible DT that the Vikes could get with that pick if someone falls to them. I've actually been starting to think that is more of a possibility than OL depending on how things fall that night. But the Vikings haven't given themselves many options unless we really believe in the changes in coaching staff and their ability to coach up OL players in a scheme.....

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:59 am

PurpleKoolaid wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:21 am Every player in the NFL has injury issues.

Wrong but ok....

But lets try and protect Rick from another failed Olineman. Because thats what important. Not Rick making this a better team since he came to the Vikings. He is like our own Matt Millen.

You know what PK....do me a favor. Tell me who you would have picked at #4 in the 2012 NFL draft? I'm guessing you probably dont recall but our 3 biggest needs that year were CB, WR and LT. I'm sure you'll run to google and try and find the best player in that class and say "yeah we should have taken him but Ricky doesnt know what he is doing" but either way, please tell me.

And all the stuff on Kalil after his 2012 season.....so dont sit there and try to play dumb saying "I'm protecting Ricky". The guy was a stud his rookie year. Spielman cant control what happens. That's on the player. And Kalil's knees started to fail along with his confidence. That isnt something you know is going to happen. If he was a bum from the start, I would 100% be sitting here saying that was a miss on Spielmans part just like I did with Patterson. But that is not the case and you know it.

Trending upwards, with rookie left tackle Matt Kalil being exactly as advertised.

How solid? Thankfully, we can answer that question pretty accurately thanks to sites like ProFootballFocus.com. We used PFF's rankings last week to help illustrate how well Vikings rookie left tackle Matt Kalil has been playing this season. Kalil's presence has turned around an offensive line that was very problematic in 2011.

The 4th overall pick performing well isn't that surprising. We expected Kalil to help out right away and he is doing just that. But PFF's recap of Sunday's game between the Vikings and Packers had some eye-opening information about other players on the Vikings offensive line.

The fourth overall pick of the 2012 NFL draft will never garner as much attention as the three players picked before him. Luck, RGIII, and Trent Richardson are skill players that are enjoying successful rookie campaigns. But that doesn't make Kalil any less valuable. Thanks to Pro Football Focus, Kalil's value is now more quantifiable.

So even after his "worst" game--which wasn't noticeably bad compared to how a lot of his teammates played in Chicago--Kalil is still the 8th best overall and 2nd highest rated in the NFC.

Kalil is being noticed in another important area--Pro Bowl voting. He is currently the leading vote-getter at tackle in the NFC. The rookie out of USC may never get the high-wattage publicity of his draft mates, but a free trip to Hawaii at the end of the season isn't bad either.

But either way, I'll wait on your draft pick from 2012......

The "bad luck" on offense in the first round could be overlooked if those bad luck picks weren't some of his better 1st round offensive picks.

For instance, Floyd ended up being a bad pick because of an injury, but because Spielman has done a good job on other 1st round picks on defense, we can overlook it and chalk that to bad luck.

YikesVikes wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2019 1:16 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:58 pm
Disagree.

This is a weak free-agent class. The Vikings didn't have the cap space to go after anybody of quality. They're going to address needs during the draft.

I agree that this class was a weak free agent class. I also did not expect them to sign anyone. However you have to admit that some of their dealings have been very peculiar. For instance, not extending or reducing Rudolph salary. I don't believe we will resolve the offensive line in the draft. If it was a defense that whole I would be very confident it will get filled but the way we have been addressing holes the last 2 years leaves me with doubt. Shamar Stephens at 4 million a year is laughable when we have almost nothing at the offensive line. We tagged Anthony Harris for the same amount of money that haha Clinton-Dix signed for. I am thinking it's time that spielman be fired. No plans for grooming a DT in last seasons draft. A surplus of DEs and we keep drafting each season.

I really thought they needed to do something with Rudolph. Renegotiate his contract to more favorable terms for the Vikings. I wasn't opposed to cutting him if that couldn't get done. This draft is pretty good on TE depth. I also felt the same with Griffen and it turns out that's what they were able to do. They didn't have much leverage this offseason. I think they probably wanted to sign some guys, they just couldn't because of all the money they have tied up. In the end, they had to do what they did (or didn't do) because their first options weren't feasible.

I'm not sure the comment on Harris and Clinton-Dix though. Are you suggesting they should have signed Haha? I think Harris was a good deal. Haha is very much overrated.

I think what really hurt was losing Easton. They obviously wanted him back, but as the theme that I mentioned before as a reason they probably couldn't do much else in terms of signing offensive players is simply because they don't have the money to do so.

The good news is that they WILL get at least 1 starter in this years draft up front and most likely will get 2. It also sounds like Reiff might have the option of going to the left side as PHP and a few have asked for since he starting showing promise. So, not all is lost, but the margin for error is definitely razor thin.

A really nice graphic that shows cap space allocated by position for every team. Look at the difference between OL and DL.

https://i.imgur.com/uNvv4GV.jpg

Unfortunate circumstances played a role in last year's poor performance by our OL but years of neglect cannot be ignored.

Speaking of Cap space, can somebody please explain something to me? I'm clearly not very smart on the subject but I thought I saw that we only have like 1.8 million or something left in cap space. Since I haven't heard that anybody other than Grif restructured their contracts how are we going to pay any more FA's when we still have to pay the rookie class? I'm probably missing something but I just don't see where that money is coming from.

Dakotavike wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:43 pm Speaking of Cap space, can somebody please explain something to me? I'm clearly not very smart on the subject but I thought I saw that we only have like 1.8 million or something left in cap space. Since I haven't heard that anybody other than Grif restructured their contracts how are we going to pay any more FA's when we still have to pay the rookie class? I'm probably missing something but I just don't see where that money is coming from.

The Vikings can restructure contracts to push more of a cap hit to future years, and less this year. They will have to dot that at some point, likely with Hunters deal.