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Agreed. Musgrave got all kinds of performance out of Patterson, including running pass routes. Turner can too.Beo wrote:I refuse to believe that Turner can't teach Patterson a fade route and have him on the field in all redzone packages. He could be the Eagles Cris Carter where all he does is catch touchdowns. I mean really they can't get 1 route out of him???
Fighting for the ball is one of the things I remember him doing pretty well. I haven't seen him play WR in about a year though so maybe that's not accurate.Demi wrote:A guy who struggles to run routes, and you want him to try running a fade? He doesn't do a good job locating or fighting for the ball in the air.
Would you have wanted to see Diggs and/or Wallace sit, or preferred more 3-4 WR sets, or just preferred more of a rotation in personnel when in 1 and 2 WR sets?losperros wrote:I've expressed my opinion about Patterson (and Johnson) enough that everyone probably knows where I stand by now. In short, I believe they should have been played last year. Maybe not started but still played. So much for that.
The only thing I want to add is given Patterson's kick return abilities and the impact it has on the team when he scores a TD, I think the Vikings really need to hang onto him. I still believe he could help the passing game but that aside, folks, he's a freakin' terror as a kick returner. That's important. Why let some other NFL team have the best kick returner in the league?
Id prefer to see more 3-4 sets....although that would lead to less TEs to block......leading back to the OL problem.fiestavike wrote: Would you have wanted to see Diggs and/or Wallace sit, or preferred more 3-4 WR sets, or just preferred more of a rotation in personnel when in 1 and 2 WR sets?
Probably more rotation (including in 3 WR sets). More 4WR sets would have been good but the Vikings became fairly TE dependent for various and mostly valid reasons. Admittedly, I'm biased because of my desire to see more diversity and get the playmakers on the field. I had no problem with Diggs and/or Wallace starting. That's especially true of Diggs. I just didn't want Patterson and Johnson sitting so much.fiestavike wrote: Would you have wanted to see Diggs and/or Wallace sit, or preferred more 3-4 WR sets, or just preferred more of a rotation in personnel when in 1 and 2 WR sets?
We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. I watch videos of Patterson's rookie season and there he is running routes, showing good hands, and shielding the defender from the ball with his body. Was he Cris Carter? Heck no. Did he make big plays? Yes. And I believe that both Patterson and Johnson could have helped the Vikings make big plays last year.Demi wrote:A guy who struggles to run routes, and you want him to try running a fade? He doesn't do a good job locating or fighting for the ball in the air.
I'm totally agreeing with losperros here.......no one can disagree that would could not have used some of "this" the past season.losperros wrote: We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. I watch videos of Patterson's rookie season and there he is running routes, showing good hands, and shielding the defender from the ball with his body. Was he Cris Carter? Heck no. Did he make big plays? Yes. And I believe that both Patterson and Johnson could have helped the Vikings make big plays last year.
I feel I could make a case that he should have been out there instead of Wallace, because Wallace showed lousy effort on many plays. I also think Teddy could play well in a spread formation, but that wasn't a realistic option if we wanted him to live to see 24.losperros wrote: Probably more rotation (including in 3 WR sets). More 4WR sets would have been good but the Vikings became fairly TE dependent for various and mostly valid reasons. Admittedly, I'm biased because of my desire to see more diversity and get the playmakers on the field. I had no problem with Diggs and/or Wallace starting. That's especially true of Diggs. I just didn't want Patterson and Johnson sitting so much.
I also hoped that the Vikings would run more shotgun sets as Norv planned, which I thought might contain less "tells" and more rotation among the receivers. But AD ran significantly better when Bridgewater was under center so that changed. Now that Peterson is going to work offseason on running from the shotgun, I'm hoping we'll see more shotgun sets next year.
On the surface, Patterson's disappearing act seems like a deep and unforgivable failure by offensive coordinator Norv Turner. But Vikings coach Mike Zimmer offered another explanation when asked Monday why his team has had such a difficult time getting Patterson involved.
"He needs to get open," Zimmer told The SiriusXM Blitz with Bruce Murray and Rich Gannon. "Pretty simple."
As a follow, Zimmer was asked if Patterson's inability to get open can be attributed to coverage, route running or other challenges understanding the game. Patterson also is battling a hip injury, though Zimmer wasn't asked about that.
"It's all of those. It's all of those," Zimmer said. "Sometimes it's coverage based. Sometimes it's his acceleration after the top of the route. Sometimes it's the beginning of the route. It's just a combination of all of them."
Zimmer asked if Patterson ran the wrong route on Shaun Hill's INT "Probably, if you were a betting man."
The guy is a liability. Adrian is great with the ball in his hands, should they start using him at receiver? McKinnon? They break down hours of tape week in and week out, and both Zimmer and the offensive coaches have seen enough to get him off the field. His lack of competence at the position was hurting the team, but because he's good at bubble screens he should get more snaps?Vikings coach Mike Zimmer said it is up to Cordarrelle Patterson to become a real wide receiver.
"If he doesn't do it," Zimmer said, "then that's what he's going to be, a returner."
Yes, AD is great with the ball in his hands. How do we know that? He gets touches. Patterson is great with the ball in his hands so he should get his chances as well. Patterson seldom hurt the team with any so-called lack of competence, but he sure did help the team when they played him more often. Well, when Musgrave did anyway. That's still one of the biggest rubs. Musgrave could get explosiveness from Patterson but now we're supposed to believe that Norv cannot. Yeah, right.Demi wrote:The guy is a liability. Adrian is great with the ball in his hands, should they start using him at receiver? McKinnon? They break down hours of tape week in and week out, and both Zimmer and the offensive coaches have seen enough to get him off the field. His lack of competence at the position was hurting the team, but because he's good at bubble screens he should get more snaps?
Yeah, he has a flashy play now and then, too bad they don't make highlights about poorly run routes and incompletions...or a player getting dominated at the line.
I see where you're coming from but I just can't believe that Zimmer or Norv would keep him on the bench out of spite. They want playmakers that can help them win. Patterson can be a playmaker but if what Zimmer is saying is true (and I don't see why we should think it isn't) then it is a liability to have him out there.losperros wrote:Yes, AD is great with the ball in his hands. How do we know that? He gets touches. Patterson is great with the ball in his hands so he should get his chances as well. Patterson never hurt the team with any so-called lack of competence, but he sure did help the team when they played him more often. Well, when Musgrave did anyway. That's still one of the biggest rubs. Musgrave could get explosiveness from Patterson but now we're supposed to believe that Norv cannot. Yeah, right.
Since we both know that Patterson did more than catch bubble screens (and that's apparent on film), then I assume you're merely exaggerating because of your weird disdain for CP personally. That part is your problem. OTOH, the Vikings problem last season was a lack of output and big plays from the passing game. Keeping both Patterson and Johnson on the bench made no sense.
They (fans and media) don't make highlights about poorly run routes and incompletions or players getting dominated at the line because it wouldn't be "highlights." In Patterson's case, there hasn't been much of that anyway and his highlights outnumber the dismal stuff (plus touchdowns are more meaningful to the team and therefore end up on highlight reels).
If all of those things are a factor, that means for most of the plays Patterson is a wildcard that mostly comes up negative. Maybe he'll be in the wrong place or not on time because he doesn't accelerate at the right time or runs the wrong route. Maybe he'll get stuffed at the line, maybe he can't identify the coverage and so he plays it improperly. If all of those are problems with his game rather than one thing he needs to shore up ... that's a huge issue. It is definitely a liability to have a player in that is potentially ineffective that often.Zimmer wrote:"Sometimes it's coverage based. Sometimes it's his acceleration after the top of the route. Sometimes it's the beginning of the route. It's just a combination of all of them."
Cliff wrote: I can't blame the coaches for not playing someone who doesn't get it. I think that would also send the wrong message to other players when the team's philosophy seems to be "do your job" not "if you're naturally talented we'll play you".
Of course, they ended up being wrong about the predictable part, especially on first down. However, the playbook, all of the nuances that can change on the same play. I think it's fairly understandable why a raw player like Patterson has a hard time with the new system.The Vikings’ offensive scheme is one of the most drastic changes about the new regime, with a playbook that already has receiver Greg Jennings dazed.
“My head is spinning,” Jennings said, “even though the offense is coming, and it’s starting to sink in. Just with all the different changeups we can present to the defense, the different looks, the different formations we can run the same play, the different variations that comes within the same play. Your head is spinning at all times until you have it down.”
Musgrave’s offense, famously compacted into a nice little index card, was often bland and predictable. It doesn’t seem as if that will be the case under Turner.
After Johnson was hurt, the Vikings had a bye and then he missed the game against Kansas City two weeks ago. In his absence, Diggs shot into the spotlight as the starter opposite Mike Wallace.
The rookie, a fifth-round pick out of Maryland, had six receptions for 108 yards and his first NFL touchdown against the Lions, and he has 19 receptions for 324 yards (17.1) in three games. He became the first Vikings player to post 80 or more yards in his first three games since Randy Moss in 1998.