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It really seems ridiculous to compare the Pack OL and Pat OL given how different their QBs play the game. Brady is the 2nd least mobile QB playing (Peyton is #1) while Rogers is probably the best throwing on the move QB EVER. If you consider that Brady's game is built on ultra quick reads and getting the ball out fast most of the time then it makes sense that his pressure and sack numbers would be far lower than a QB like Rogers who holds to ball and moves to find the big play. How much of the disparity between the two OL units is due to the above difference vs. any actual talent amongst the players on the line?

For the Vikings, Zimmer has said that Teddy is holding the ball too long, which is common for a young QB. That doesn't excuse the revolving door pass protection, but faster reads/ decision making would help his line. See Brady above...

mansquatch wrote:It really seems ridiculous to compare the Pack OL and Pat OL given how different their QBs play the game. Brady is the 2nd least mobile QB playing (Peyton is #1) while Rogers is probably the best throwing on the move QB EVER. If you consider that Brady's game is built on ultra quick reads and getting the ball out fast most of the time then it makes sense that his pressure and sack numbers would be far lower than a QB like Rogers who holds to ball and moves to find the big play. How much of the disparity between the two OL units is due to the above difference vs. any actual talent amongst the players on the line?

For the Vikings, Zimmer has said that Teddy is holding the ball too long, which is common for a young QB. That doesn't excuse the revolving door pass protection, but faster reads/ decision making would help his line. See Brady above...

Good points and I totally agree.

I don't think TB is awful by any stretch. I think the faster reads could be nursed along with quicker developing routes that force LBs back into coverage.
Use CP, Wright and the insane speed of this receiving core to open everything up and take pressure off the line with quicker/shorter routes. Use a no huddle. Attack these defenses and keep them off balance. Change tactics Norv! Don't just use the AD crutch.
In spite of my dislike of TB's throwing motion, the kid is clearly good enough to win IMO.
I think (and I know I'm not alone here) that they could be getting a lot more out of this offense and the dysfunction is not soley on TB or the line.
I don't know what ranting on the board is going to do about any of it but hopefully I'm done.

The Breeze wrote:I don't think TB is awful by any stretch. I think the faster reads could be nursed along with quicker developing routes that force LBs back into coverage.
Use CP, Wright and the insane speed of this receiving core to open everything up and take pressure off the line with quicker/shorter routes. Use a no huddle. Attack these defenses and keep them off balance. Change tactics Norv! Don't just use the AD crutch.
In spite of my dislike of TB's throwing motion, the kid is clearly good enough to win IMO.
I think (and I know I'm not alone here) that they could be getting a lot more out of this offense and the dysfunction is not soley on TB or the line.

It's not solely on anybody, which is why dysfunction is a good word for it.

Bridgewater's game has issues right now. He's still a developing player so that should be expected but there seems to be a lot of denial about it here on the board and in general. He's not "useless" or awful but he's leaving plays on the field and he has to get better... soon and in a number of areas.

He's far from the only one that needs to improve though...

I agree with most of what you're saying, Edward, especially about Bridgewater and the deep throws (and when he misreads a D or doesn't see an open receiver). Where we disagree is about Turner. There has to be accountability on his part. You can be shocked by the thought that Turner is close-minded about the WRs but I think it's obvious that Turner limits himself with his own dogmatism, and I think it's hurting the team.

I've said enough about this. My stand is that the passing offense is dysfunctional for a number of reasons and needs fixing.[/quote]

I agree 100% in regards to Turner being at least partially responsible. I have been on the fence about Turner and his use/misuse of certain players and lack of creativity. Not necessarily asking for trick plays but misdirection is very underutilized imho.

mansquatch wrote:It really seems ridiculous to compare the Pack OL and Pat OL given how different their QBs play the game. Brady is the 2nd least mobile QB playing (Peyton is #1) while Rogers is probably the best throwing on the move QB EVER. If you consider that Brady's game is built on ultra quick reads and getting the ball out fast most of the time then it makes sense that his pressure and sack numbers would be far lower than a QB like Rogers who holds to ball and moves to find the big play. How much of the disparity between the two OL units is due to the above difference vs. any actual talent amongst the players on the line?

For the Vikings, Zimmer has said that Teddy is holding the ball too long, which is common for a young QB. That doesn't excuse the revolving door pass protection, but faster reads/ decision making would help his line. See Brady above...

The Packers run a traditional quick hitting WCO, Rodgers ability to move around developed directly from the fact that his O lines used to be consistently among the worst in the league, and Rodgers is one of the few QBs to have a quicker release then Brady.

While he does hang onto the ball trying to make a play a bit more then Brady, it quite clearly isn't enough to make his O lines consistently bottom 10 while Bradys are consistently top 10. That, imo, is a HUGE reach.


So no, I completely disagree and find that quite a reach to explain the discrepancy between the usual O line numbers of those two teams, again, we run a quick hitting traditional WCO.

Cliff wrote: This isn't getting enough attention. It almost made me choke to death.

Sent using tapatalk. Typos should be expected.

Thank you. I'll be here all week. Tip your waitress.

Man anyone see Carolina today? Kurt Coleman is really looking like the one that got away. Can you imagine we had a chance of him and Smith as our safeties? Bah.

Through the wisdom of age, and thanks to last night's game, it's clear what we need to do. Relax. It was one bad game. That makes two this season. The team that was supposed to win the superbowl just had their fourth bad game.

The thought is always that our last game is what the "true Vikings" look like. During the win streak, we were up to top four in some rankings. After the loss, we'd be lucky to make the playoffs. Somehow, that loss exposed our weaknesses the way five wins in a row did not expose our strengths.

If we hadn't beat the bears and the Lions twice, they'd each be 6-5 and in strong playoff consideration. But we are better this year. Lets enjoy it, without the "sky is falling" mentality, after the next, nearly inevitable four losses.

John_Viveiros wrote:Through the wisdom of age, and thanks to last night's game, it's clear what we need to do. Relax. It was one bad game. That makes two this season. The team that was supposed to win the superbowl just had their fourth bad game.

The thought is always that our last game is what the "true Vikings" look like. During the win streak, we were up to top four in some rankings. After the loss, we'd be lucky to make the playoffs. Somehow, that loss exposed our weaknesses the way five wins in a row did not expose our strengths.

If we hadn't beat the bears and the Lions twice, they'd each be 6-5 and in strong playoff consideration. But we are better this year. Lets enjoy it, without the "sky is falling" mentality, after the next, nearly inevitable four losses.

With how strong the Bears and Lions are coming off lately, I wouldn't be surprised to see any team on top the north at the end of the season.

Good advice too. Got a little too deep during this 5 game winning streak. Starting listening to KFAN and whatever podcast I could find during work. I'm going to just enjoy the ride. How fun is to still be in the playoff mix in December?

I have to confess, it really aggravates me that Green Bay's one win during a stretch in which they've lost 4 out of 5 games, including back-to-back home losses to divisional opponents, came against the Vikings, in Minnesota, and was a decisive win.

Munnerlyn had it right: the Vikings peed down their leg in that game last Sunday. What does that say about this Vikings team? With first place on the line, against a struggling team, they went out and got stomped by 17 points... at home!

@Jim
I was really surprised by the loss to GB...mostly because of the way it happened.
But it just shows how young this team is in terms of understanding how to bring it on every down.
In retrospect it was much like the SF game and hopefully a wakeup call for these guys.
The 'big stage' letdown is concerning. Is it just coincidence that these poor performances have happened on National spotlit games? or is it more about being overconfident during a long win streak?
Either way, my gut says Zimmer knows how to use this kind of letdown to light a fire under their backsides and I'm expecting the defense to play with their collective hair on fire in ATL.
Not sure what we'll see from the other side of the ball though.

The Breeze wrote:@Jim
I was really surprised by the loss to GB...mostly because of the way it happened.
But it just shows how young this team is in terms of understanding how to bring it on every down.
In retrospect it was much like the SF game and hopefully a wakeup call for these guys.

I hope so. The SF game seemed to serve that function but it's rather unsettling to think they needed a second call. Then again, I've been known to go back to sleep after a hotel wake up call...

The 'big stage' letdown is concerning. Is it just coincidence that these poor performances have happened on National spotlit games? or is it more about being overconfident during a long win streak?
Either way, my gut says Zimmer knows how to use this kind of letdown to light a fire under their backsides and I'm expecting the defense to play with their collective hair on fire in ATL.
Not sure what we'll see from the other side of the ball though.

I'm not either but I do think Zimmer will try to use this loss to motivate his team and I'll be disappointed if we don't see one of the Vikings better efforts of the season against ATL, especially since the Bears win yesterday provided another opportunity for the Vikes to take a firmer grasp on first place.

While the two games (Sf GB) were similar in the sense of letdown..I think the situations were quite different.
One was a coming out of an undefeated preseason and 'believing their own press' thing...while the other may be just a case of not ever being in a situation and failing to meet their opponents desperation/intensity.
I think it's fair to say that playoff atmosphere begins in December and everything gets turned up. We'll see how these youngsters respond and what kind of pride they have.
Ultimately they will have to win on the big stage against quality opponents.
And speaking of the Bears...Fox has them playing some gritty football, they're gonna be dangerous down the stretch.

John_Viveiros wrote:Through the wisdom of age, and thanks to last night's game, it's clear what we need to do. Relax. It was one bad game. That makes two this season. The team that was supposed to win the superbowl just had their fourth bad game.

The thought is always that our last game is what the "true Vikings" look like. During the win streak, we were up to top four in some rankings. After the loss, we'd be lucky to make the playoffs. Somehow, that loss exposed our weaknesses the way five wins in a row did not expose our strengths.

If we hadn't beat the bears and the Lions twice, they'd each be 6-5 and in strong playoff consideration. But we are better this year. Lets enjoy it, without the "sky is falling" mentality, after the next, nearly inevitable four losses.

I vote this as the OFFICIAL Thanksgiving message of VMB!

I agree. Let's give thanks to be cheering on a club headed in the right direction and, as you state, to be still in the race in December.