Vikings Message Board.Com

dead_poet wrote:

I doubt that will last much longer:

http://www.twincities.com/vikings/ci_21 ... rting-shot

One of my biggest concerns is that our HC is a former DB, yet our secondary is much worse off then I can ever remember it being. We used to at least be able to stop the run, and cant come close to that now. Smith should help, but hes a rookie. But my 7 yr old niece would be a better safety then who is playing now. Fraizer is in so far ocer his head. Worst possible coach for a rebuilding year. Yeah, I know, another negative post.

Jamarca Sanford and Mistral Raymond remain the first team safeties for this session. #Vikings

FFS, just start Harrison Smith already. I am pretty sure the guy has 'earned' the job.

HardcoreVikesFan wrote: FFS, just start Harrison Smith already. I am pretty sure the guy has 'earned' the job.

Take a deep breath...

We're talking about a practice session a few days after the first preseason game. Don't worry, he'll get his chance to start. They didn't draft him to sit on the bench behind Sanford and Raymond all season and Frazier has already intimated that Smith could start soon.

Jim

PurpleKoolaid wrote:One of my biggest concerns is that our HC is a former DB, yet our secondary is much worse off then I can ever remember it being. We used to at least be able to stop the run, and cant come close to that now. Smith should help, but hes a rookie. But my 7 yr old niece would be a better safety then who is playing now. Fraizer is in so far ocer his head. Worst possible coach for a rebuilding year. Yeah, I know, another negative post.

I have decided that you can't help yourself with all of your negative posts and I have no problems with that.. This is, after all, an open forum styled message board where fans should be able to post what they feel You and at least one other fan seem to believe that this team sucks and it is doomed to failure. Some times, I must admit, that it is most difficult in supporting the team with my constant optimistic approach when the team has been so bad for so long.
I still believe that Winfield has some good years left and I feel as though Cook will pleasantly surprise all of his critics. The addition of Smith to safety will be a big boost. I am hoping that some of the younger players will step up and greatly improve the secondary.
As most people know, one of the secrets to good secondary play is a good pass rush and the Vikings certainly have a great pass rush.

I watched that run by Brandon Jacobs again where Mistral took the bad angle. It's amazing how that play developed. First, the entire Viking front seven gets steamrolled in one direction, resulting in a hole Jacobs could have driven a truck through. Only Mistral is in an position to come up and seal that off and/or force Jacobs inside where the other safety might be able to limit the damage. Raymond must have seen the hole opening because he just freezes as the sea parts in front of him. But instead of filling in that gaping space and trying to cut off the outside, he just freezes. That allows Jacobs ample time to pick up steam and bump it to the outside. By the time Raymond appears to have mentally registered the situation and starts to move, he's already lost outside contain and Jacobs isn't even slowed as he turns the corner.

Now it's true that Raymond was put in a bad spot by the way the entire Viking front seven allowed itself to be steamrolled on the play. But I've watched enough NFL-caliber safeties come down and seal that gap to know it's expected that the runner be at least slowed or hit in the hole. It looked like Raymond thought maybe he had someone to worry about covering despite what was unfolding in front of him. Just pitifully slow recognition and reaction. If that play is defended well Jacobs has to make Raymond miss in the hole, which slows him down and allows the other safety to collapse on it. It was perfectly blocked up front by the 49ers and they deserve credit for that, but Jacobs isn't AD. He lacks the burst to make a safety miss in the hole. That was Raymond's play to make and he completely blew it.

And while it may appear I'm picking on Mistral, there is a lot more blame on those running plays. The Viking front 7 played like rookies across the board. The 49ers are no slouches on the offensive line. Harbaugh has a team that can run the ball. But these were vanilla plays that required the Vikings defense to primarily hold gaps and be disciplined, and they couldn't do it. Lots of big runs over to where Jared Allen would normally be. That is away from Greenway, Robison, and Guion.

I know preseason doesn't mean much, but if Harrison Smith isn't going with the starters soon, that's going to be another black mark for Frazier as far as I am concerned regarding his ability to make the right moves on the field for the long term. It's impossible for someone to play the safety position worse than what I saw from Mistral Raymond, and not just on the Jacobs run. If Smith makes that error, at least he can chalk it up to lack of experience. Raymond doesn't have that excuse.

VikingLord wrote:If Smith makes that error, at least he can chalk it up to lack of experience. Raymond doesn't have that excuse.

So 5 starts is all a sixth-round guy is allowed before he should be experienced? Rough.

VikingLord wrote:I watched that run by Brandon Jacobs again where Mistral took the bad angle. It's amazing how that play developed. First, the entire Viking front seven gets steamrolled in one direction, resulting in a hole Jacobs could have driven a truck through. Only Mistral is in an position to come up and seal that off and/or force Jacobs inside where the other safety might be able to limit the damage. Raymond must have seen the hole opening because he just freezes as the sea parts in front of him. But instead of filling in that gaping space and trying to cut off the outside, he just freezes. That allows Jacobs ample time to pick up steam and bump it to the outside. By the time Raymond appears to have mentally registered the situation and starts to move, he's already lost outside contain and Jacobs isn't even slowed as he turns the corner.

Now it's true that Raymond was put in a bad spot by the way the entire Viking front seven allowed itself to be steamrolled on the play. But I've watched enough NFL-caliber safeties come down and seal that gap to know it's expected that the runner be at least slowed or hit in the hole. It looked like Raymond thought maybe he had someone to worry about covering despite what was unfolding in front of him. Just pitifully slow recognition and reaction. If that play is defended well Jacobs has to make Raymond miss in the hole, which slows him down and allows the other safety to collapse on it. It was perfectly blocked up front by the 49ers and they deserve credit for that, but Jacobs isn't AD. He lacks the burst to make a safety miss in the hole. That was Raymond's play to make and he completely blew it.

He definitely blew it but I wonder if it's because he was slow to read and react or if he was reluctant to take Jacobs on in that situation. Jacobs may not have the agility to make a safety like Raymond miss him in that hole but he has the size to plow over a smaller defender, especially if that defender doesn't commit to the tackle.

I know preseason doesn't mean much, but if Harrison Smith isn't going with the starters soon, that's going to be another black mark for Frazier as far as I am concerned regarding his ability to make the right moves on the field for the long term.

It's early in the second week of the preseason and as you said, preseason doesn't mean much so why start preparing that dreaded black mark? I know the team is coming off a few down years and there's plenty football frustration to go around but is it too much to ask for at least a little patience?

Frazier is clearly thinking about starting Smith soon so all the frustration being expressed over this just seems... unnecessary.

http://www.twincities.com/vikings/ci_21 ... rting-shot

Smith has performed well of late and "very well could" start Friday, Aug. 17, against Buffalo, coach Leslie Frazier said.

"We want to see how he performs in that (starter's) role," Frazier said. "He did some good things when he was in there on Friday night."

Maybe it's just me but it sure seems tense around here for mid-August. Is anybody else getting that vibe?

Mothman wrote:Maybe it's just me but it sure seems tense around here for mid-August. Is anybody else getting that vibe?

No doubt about it, it's a big season and expectations have been raised after only three wins the year before. Question marks surround many positions and we're a very young team. No bigger question mark than the quarterback position (how often has that been typed in the last 10 years?). I also think that the game has become even more popular, putting an increased focus on every player and coach. There is the possibility that Frazier and Ponder could both be replaced following another dismal season.

Another contributing factor is that we're aching for progress and to get out of the cellar. The pain of how 2009 ended reminds us how good we were and how close we came, made that much more bitter by the events of the following seasons. There's much anticipation and we're all clamoring around the latest tidbits on our favorite team to see if we can spot hints that we won't be one of the worst teams in the league. When it seems as though our young players are making mistakes, it just adds to the frustration and to the "here we go again" mentality many of us share. I think, as Vikings fans, we're so desperate for a Super Bowl victory that when we see players making mistakes many believe it'll be just that much longer before we get there because Player X is more of a liability than asset and we're stuck with him until we can draft someone new. And then there's a maturation process all over again. Rinse. Repeat.

Just a couple of thoughts.

Mothman wrote: He definitely blew it but I wonder if it's because he was slow to read and react or if he was reluctant to take Jacobs on in that situation. Jacobs may not have the agility to make a safety like Raymond miss him in that hole but he has the size to plow over a smaller defender, especially if that defender doesn't commit to the tackle.


It's early in the second week of the preseason and as you said, preseason doesn't mean much so why start preparing that dreaded black mark? I know the team is coming off a few down years and there's plenty football frustration to go around but is it too much to ask for at least a little patience?

Frazier is clearly thinking about starting Smith soon so all the frustration being expressed over this just seems... unnecessary.

http://www.twincities.com/vikings/ci_21 ... rting-shot
Maybe it's just me but it sure seems tense around here for mid-August. Is anybody else getting that vibe?

I am just anxious for the real season to begin. I get tired of all of the constant negativity (although I understand it) and think that this team will turn their fortunes around in the next two years. I have a good friend in Vegas and I set a side 500 dollars to make on wagers for the Vikes in the weeks to come. There are outstanding odds with propositon bets and I plan on taking advantage of them.

Harrison Smith will be a starter, you simply don't trade back into the 1st round to have a guy sit on the bench or play special teams. Frazier has come out and said he wants Smith to earn the starting job rather than just have it handed to him. I'm fine with that but I also suspect they're still trying to figure out who will start opposite of him. As DP mentioned, Raymond was a 6th rounder, and Sanford was a 7th, so these guys are very raw even with some games under their belt.

Raymond took a bad angle, but he's also really the only safety that's made any picks (in games and from what I can tell, in practice). Meanwhile, I've seen Sanford miss more than his share of tackles in games last year not to mention blown coverages.

dead_poet wrote: No doubt about it, it's a big season and expectations have been raised after only three wins the year before. Question marks surround many positions and we're a very young team. No bigger question mark than the quarterback position (how often has that been typed in the last 10 years?). I also think that the game has become even more popular, putting an increased focus on every player and coach. There is the possibility that Frazier and Ponder could both be replaced following another dismal season.

Another contributing factor is that we're aching for progress and to get out of the cellar. The pain of how 2009 ended reminds us how good we were and how close we came, made that much more bitter by the events of the following seasons. There's much anticipation and we're all clamoring around the latest tidbits on our favorite team to see if we can spot hints that we won't be one of the worst teams in the league. When it seems as though our young players are making mistakes, it just adds to the frustration and to the "here we go again" mentality many of us share. I think, as Vikings fans, we're so desperate for a Super Bowl victory that when we see players making mistakes many believe it'll be just that much longer before we get there because Player X is more of a liability than asset and we're stuck with him until we can draft someone new. And then there's a maturation process all over again. Rinse. Repeat.

Just a couple of thoughts.

They're good thoughts! I think you described the situation much more concisely than I could have and I definitely believe there's a cumulative frustration at work. It's tough to see the team get close to the Super Bowl and then take a dive, especially one as deep as 3-13. We all desperately want the team to get better and as Vikings fans, we haven't had to face such a serious rebuilding situation often.

Tom Pelissero ‏@TomPelissero
Harrison Smith continuing his push to start, just made a helluva interception against Mickey Shuler in one on ones. #Vikings

Tom Pelissero ‏@TomPelissero
And there is Harrison Smith a sack to end a move the ball drill. I think he's here to stay folks ....

Tom Pelissero ‏@TomPelissero
Matt Kalil had an MRI on the thumb and it came back ok so he returned. #Vikings

Sportswire (Griffen Moved Back To DE): http://www.1500espn.com/sportswire/Ever ... ssue081312

Harrison Smith will be a starter, you simply don't trade back into the 1st round to have a guy sit on the bench or play special teams. Frazier has come out and said he wants Smith to earn the starting job rather than just have it handed to him.

I hope not, put up with the same crap from Childress with Peterson, and the lack of snaps for Rudolph last year. Some offensive linemen never got a chance when it was clear the current starters had no future. Harrison Smith should have been with the #1 from the day he showed up, and should have been the starter the minute the first depth chart was released. This "earn it" stuff, the safeties starting ahead of him were given more than enough time to try and earn that spot. And failed miserably. They earned their way to a backup role.

But hey, these are the same guys that brought in McNabb, and after he hung himself, let him dangle for weeks beyond what he should have. So until Spielman gets control over the depth chart and not just the roster, I guess we'll have to keep tolerating this "in house" garbage you see all the time.

Right bring in a raw rookie with zero NFL experience and hand him the starting job before camp even starts WOW. Now that is the way to run a team and for sure the veterans would agree to just give him the job with out proving himself. Or wait a minute bring him in, let him "prove" himself to the coaches and the team hmmmm