Vikings Message Board.Com

VikingLord wrote: I don't know. It sure seemed to positively impact the informed opinion of more than one NFL "expert":

http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/20 ... -draft-qb/

I believe that combines, and pro-days, and other parts of the process will tell you more about certain players than others. It just depends on what the ?s are for each player. A lot of people online got their panties all up in a wad when Mayock, and others said that Clowneys impressive 40 yard dash didn't mean much to them. They felt that Mayock and Company were dismissing it as something that didn't matter. However, the questions around Clowney have never been his physical stats and characteristics. Everyone felt coming into the Combine that he was A+ in that department. Running a 4.5 40 can't turn an A+ into anything higher. The ?s around Clowney are about whether his head is in the right spot, does he love the game, is his work ethic good enough to succeed in the NFL. None of those things could be answered at the measurables portion of the Combine. Thus the statement. Its not that it wasn't impressive, it just was never in question. Where as a guy like Aaron Donald flew up the boards, because people did not expect to see the type of agility and athleticism out of him, and were really impressed.

I think the Pro day was fairly important to Manziel, outside of his immaturity, he has been knocked for accuracy and arm strength, and his footwork. All of those things are on display at his pro day. He isn't able to just heave a ball up and the Wideout goes and gets it, he is being asked to throw a specific route and placement, and evaluated on how well he does that. From what I understand, he did very well at calming some of those concerns. I still don't want him in purple, and you have to wonder if Zimmer's "sideshow" comments are indicative of his feeling towards him coming to MN. He has openly questioned his maturity, and now comments not on his skills at the pro day, but talking about how its sort of a circus, former president in attendance, music, advertising.. ect Does an old fashioned guy like Zimmer want to be tied at the hips to someone he may not "like" off the field.

PS. I don't need 50 people telling me there is no indication or proof that Zimmer doesn't like him, this is my own opinionated hypothosis based on Zimmer's presumed Old School Football personality not meshing with someone whos ego and personality might be too big for Zimmer to want to deal with on a daily basis.

I could have missed it but has anybody brought up the irony of a guy trying to shed criticisms of his ego, holding a televised star studded media circus of a pro day?

lyzarde wrote:I could have missed it but has anybody brought up the irony of a guy trying to shed criticisms of his ego, holding a televised star studded media circus of a pro day?

Two things:

1. I think it was ridiculous for Manziel to have his Pro Day uniform being promoted by Nike as something you can purchase. People really have gone football crazy if they're wearing the pro day uniform of a recruit. Of course, Nike probably approached him and offered him tens of thousands of dollars (or more) for the right to do it. Put yourself in his position: would you turn it down?

2. I keep hearing "star-studded" thrown in there. Correct me if I'm wrong, but is only former President George H.W. Bush (and Barbara) the only "celebrities" in attendance? Again, put yourself in the kid's shoes. Maybe the former President is a giant fan (he probably is) and asked if he could attend. Do you really turn down a 90 year-old former President?

dead_poet wrote: Two things:

1. I think it was ridiculous for Manziel to have his Pro Day uniform being promoted by Nike as something you can purchase. People really have gone football crazy if they're wearing the pro day uniform of a recruit. Of course, Nike probably approached him and offered him tens of thousands of dollars (or more) for the right to do it. Put yourself in his position: would you turn it down?

2. I keep hearing "star-studded" thrown in there. Correct me if I'm wrong, but is only former President George H.W. Bush (and Barbara) the only "celebrities" in attendance? Again, put yourself in the kid's shoes. Maybe the former President is a giant fan (he probably is) and asked if he could attend. Do you really turn down a 90 year-old former President?

I agree on both counts.

One other "celebrity" was supposed to show up, but did not: Governor Rick Perry (yeah, THAT Rick Perry--see below).

I like JFB's swagger and his willingness to do things differently and cultivate a bit of mystique and originality. I liked his comments on why he chose to wear helmet and shoulder pads.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uvmKnFY4uk

I thought this article on Grantland did a great job on 'explaining away' [my term] the usefulness of QB Pro Days.
http://grantland.com/features/teddy-bri ... aningless/

"More and more, when I go back through recent history and look at the first-round quarterbacks who failed to live up to expectations, I notice how frequently the problem of making accurate throws while handling a professional pass rush seems to come up. It’s not just that this isn’t tested during any of the pre-draft rituals, it’s that it’s thrown out the window and replaced with what might very well be false information. A quarterback shows effective footwork after weeks of drilling for a pro day, only to immediately lose that footwork and resort to bad habits once Aldon Smith or Robert Mathis starts bearing down on him."

This just makes sense to me. Watch the guy play football in college on Saturdays. Check him in March only if you have a specific question about size, speed, or strength. But the brain, the most important asset for a QB (well, except for Bradshaw - his most important asset was a dozen HOF'ers), is seen during games.

Manziel - never seem him play. Now I can tell you about Suarez... [check my location if that eludes you].

KSViking wrote: I believe that combines, and pro-days, and other parts of the process will tell you more about certain players than others. It just depends on what the ?s are for each player. A lot of people online got their panties all up in a wad when Mayock, and others said that Clowneys impressive 40 yard dash didn't mean much to them. They felt that Mayock and Company were dismissing it as something that didn't matter. However, the questions around Clowney have never been his physical stats and characteristics. Everyone felt coming into the Combine that he was A+ in that department. Running a 4.5 40 can't turn an A+ into anything higher. The ?s around Clowney are about whether his head is in the right spot, does he love the game, is his work ethic good enough to succeed in the NFL. None of those things could be answered at the measurables portion of the Combine. Thus the statement. Its not that it wasn't impressive, it just was never in question. Where as a guy like Aaron Donald flew up the boards, because people did not expect to see the type of agility and athleticism out of him, and were really impressed.

I think the Pro day was fairly important to Manziel, outside of his immaturity, he has been knocked for accuracy and arm strength, and his footwork. All of those things are on display at his pro day. He isn't able to just heave a ball up and the Wideout goes and gets it, he is being asked to throw a specific route and placement, and evaluated on how well he does that. From what I understand, he did very well at calming some of those concerns. I still don't want him in purple, and you have to wonder if Zimmer's "sideshow" comments are indicative of his feeling towards him coming to MN. He has openly questioned his maturity, and now comments not on his skills at the pro day, but talking about how its sort of a circus, former president in attendance, music, advertising.. ect Does an old fashioned guy like Zimmer want to be tied at the hips to someone he may not "like" off the field.

PS. I don't need 50 people telling me there is no indication or proof that Zimmer doesn't like him, this is my own opinionated hypothosis based on Zimmer's presumed Old School Football personality not meshing with someone whos ego and personality might be too big for Zimmer to want to deal with on a daily basis.

Hat sounds familier, Hmmmm heard of Van Broiling and Fran TaekentoTaekento?

Delaqure wrote:
Hat sounds familier, Hmmmm heard of Van Broiling and Fran TaekentoTaekento?

Im confused

KSViking wrote: Im confused

I think he is referencing Norm Van Brocklin (coach) and Fran Tarkenton. You figure it out from there.

That was 10 years before I was born. So I don't know a whole lot about the relationship they had, outside of Van Brocklin was a stationary Pocket QB, and Tarkington was anything but.

KSViking wrote:That was 10 years before I was born. So I don't know a whole lot about the relationship they had, outside of Van Brocklin was a stationary Pocket QB, and Tarkington was anything but.

Van Brocklin coached Tarkenton and they did not see eye to eye about Fran's constant scrambling.

Texas Vike wrote:
I agree on both counts.

One other "celebrity" was supposed to show up, but did not: Governor Rick Perry (yeah, THAT Rick Perry--see below).

I like JFB's swagger and his willingness to do things differently and cultivate a bit of mystique and originality. I liked his comments on why he chose to wear helmet and shoulder pads.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uvmKnFY4uk

The fact that Texas A&M Pro Day was on March 6th, yet JFB had to have Johnny Manziel Pro Day all for himself, sort of sets the tone for Me Me Me. Every other player that had a pro day, went on the schools scheduled Pro day, except for him. Setting yourself apart from everyone else is one thing, but this constant need for attention, and the hoopla that follows him around, just makes me not want that up in Minny. But, if they do draft him, I will try to have an open mind and give the guy a chance before screaming I told you so!!

KSViking wrote:That was 10 years before I was born. So I don't know a whole lot about the relationship they had, outside of Van Brocklin was a stationary Pocket QB, and Tarkington was anything but.

Ha! I just read my post. That will teach me to type on my phone without my glasses on.

Yep, I meant Van Brocklin and Tarkenton. They had a very rocky relationship as Van Brocklin was a no nonsense hard nosed coach who wanted Tarkenton to play the way Van Brocklin wanted him to play. Tarkenton was more flamboyant and flat out refused to play that way as that wasn't his style. He felt they had the best chance of winning if he played the way he played. It turns out in the end that Tarkenton was right.

JFB may be too flamboyant for Zimmer, I don't know. But I do know that if Zimmer thinks so JFB shouldn't be drafted by us. We want our coaches and QBs to work together and not be butting heads all the time. That never works out well. If Zimmer is to be the coach for us, we need him to have a good working relationship with our QB if we want a shot at winning a Super Bowl.

If we do end up with JFB as our QB my hope is that we not try and change him into something he is not. We need him to be successful and that means we need him to play to his abilities and strengths and accept him the way he is. That doesn't mean we can't fine tune him or teach him a few things. It just means we don't want to try and change him into something he is not.

Delaqure wrote: Ha! I just read my post. That will teach me to type on my phone without my glasses on.

Yep, I meant Van Brocklin and Tarkenton. They had a very rocky relationship as Van Brocklin was a no nonsense hard nosed coach who wanted Tarkenton to play the way Van Brocklin wanted him to play. Tarkenton was more flamboyant and flat out refused to play that way as that wasn't his style. He felt they had the best chance of winning if he played the way he played. It turns out in the end that Tarkenton was right.

JFB may be too flamboyant for Zimmer, I don't know. But I do know that if Zimmer thinks so JFB shouldn't be drafted by us. We want our coaches and QBs to work together and not be butting heads all the time. That never works out well. If Zimmer is to be the coach for us, we need him to have a good working relationship with our QB if we want a shot at winning a Super Bowl.

If we do end up with JFB as our QB my hope is that we not try and change him into something he is not. We need him to be successful and that means we need him to play to his abilities and strengths and accept him the way he is. That doesn't mean we can't fine tune him or teach him a few things. It just means we don't want to try and change him into something he is not.

Hey, no love for me being your Rosetta Stone and figuring out what you were trying to say

Johnny's stock could get out of control. I think Ricky boy'll do whatever it takes to get his guy this time around, and I think Johnny Football is his guy.

Purple bruise wrote: Hey, no love for me being your Rosetta Stone and figuring out what you were trying to say

You have all my love PB! In a non creepy way of course.