Vikings Message Board.Com

Barber was also playing for Tampa aka the inventors of the system. They also had a good pass rush, HOF LB, and a terrifying safety in Lynch.

Bears ran it well under Lovie because they groomed a lot of players drafted by them and had elite LB corps at one point.

NextQuestion wrote:My point? It's not a good system. DRC played man again this year in Denver and is viewed as a top CB again. Nnamdi got hurt in SF and was released/retired. Look at Brandon Carr in Dallas...he's terrible in the Cover-2 system there. The system isn't very good.

While it definitely isn't my favorite scheme, there isn't a scheme in the NFL imo, that can't be successful with the right players, I think its a bit ridiculous to write it off as "Not being a good scheme".

80 PurplePride 84 wrote: What's ironic is that was something Clueless repeatedly talked about not doing in press conferences.

Maybe not ironic. Coach-speak is usually filled with exactly those types of cliches. Now we have Zimmer and everyone loves what he says, but it remains to be seen how much of it is truly what he believes and how much is just the regurgitation of what a thousand other HCs in his position have said.

NextQuestion wrote:My point? It's not a good system. DRC played man again this year in Denver and is viewed as a top CB again. Nnamdi got hurt in SF and was released/retired. Look at Brandon Carr in Dallas...he's terrible in the Cover-2 system there. The system isn't very good.

The Vikes were playing less and less cover 2 as the season went on last year and they still didn't pick off many passes. I'm not saying the defensive strategy and schemes had nothing to do with the low INT production in recent years but faulting the system when players aren't producing seems overly simplistic to me, especially when followed with:

NextQuestion wrote:Barber was also playing for Tampa aka the inventors of the system. They also had a good pass rush, HOF LB, and a terrifying safety in Lynch.

Bears ran it well under Lovie because they groomed a lot of players drafted by them and had elite LB corps at one point.

If the system works with the right players, and the system doesn't appear to be working, don't you think there's a good chance talent is one of the reasons for that? You have to have the players to run ANY scheme effectively and along the same lines, if the players are inadequate, it's tough for any scheme to be effective. I think it's been years since the Vikings had the personnel in the back 7 of their defense to achieve consistent success with any scheme. That's why I think the poor INT numbers have to do with both scheme and personnel, but primarily to do with players who lacked the instincts to make those plays in the first place.

I think it's Derek Carr. If not him, one of Johnny Manziel or Teddy Bridgewater, but Derek Carr seems the most likely scenario to me.

Bortles I think is getting so much hype that he can't possibly drop from the top 5. Manziel and Bridgewater are being scrutinized intensely by the media, because they're big school guys who have been hyped for so long, and the media's logic is that once it's time for the draft, it's time to pull a 180. Of course, I expect the 3 QB needy teams ahead of us to draft those 3 guys, which allows the Vikes (The only QB needy team remaining), to do as they wish with the 1st rounder. I think they trade it back to the two teams directly behind them (Detroit and Buffalo) for the 9th or 10th pick, and take Carr in the 2nd.

I've pretty much made up my mind that the Vikings will not take a QB #1. There just isn't going to be anybody there worthy of picking that high. Especially for a team with so many needs on defense. I'm not so sure that Teddy or Football are good enough to pick that high. They are certainly not in the Andrew Luck league.

I think they grab a defensive stud at #8 and then focus on a QB with the second round pick. I know that could turn into disaster, but I really don't believe it's any more risky than taking one of the top three QBs. There are questions about ALL of these signal callers coming out this year.

I mean Bridgewater seems to be the clear-cut #1 and I don't think he looks like a sure-fire NFL star by any stretch. I'd be just as nervous about the position if the Vikings somehow traded up and got him.

I really think the success of this team in 2014 is going to hinge greatly on a veteran that they bring in/bring back. Whether it's Cassel or somebody else. I think the chances of a QB they draft beginning the season as the starter are shrinking more and more. I know that is a scary proposition, but it's what happens when you badly need a QB and there doesn't appear to be a great one available. At least not that we know about yet.

majorm wrote:I've pretty much made up my mind that the Vikings will not take a QB #1. There just isn't going to be anybody there worthy of picking that high. Especially for a team with so many needs on defense. I'm not so sure that Teddy or Football are good enough to pick that high. They are certainly not in the Andrew Luck league.

I think they grab a defensive stud at #8 and then focus on a QB with the second round pick. I know that could turn into disaster, but I really don't believe it's any more risky than taking one of the top three QBs. There are questions about ALL of these signal callers coming out this year.

I mean Bridgewater seems to be the clear-cut #1 and I don't think he looks like a sure-fire NFL star by any stretch. I'd be just as nervous about the position if the Vikings somehow traded up and got him.

I really think the success of this team in 2014 is going to hinge greatly on a veteran that they bring in/bring back. Whether it's Cassel or somebody else. I think the chances of a QB they draft beginning the season as the starter are shrinking more and more. I know that is a scary proposition, but it's what happens when you badly need a QB and there doesn't appear to be a great one available. At least not that we know about yet.

I would tend to agree about them not selecting a QB in the 1st round unless Bortles, Manziel, or Bridgewater are there. To me, Carr is a mid 2nd round pick. I think that a whole lot of their selections will be influenced before the draft as they lose and pick up free agents or through trades. I can easily see them signing 2 or three top free agents and maybe make one significant trade before the draft.
Unlike some that think Spielman is an incompetent idiot (mostly based on the Ponder pick) I feel as though he is very competent and will again, for the 3rd consecutive year, come away with a very solid draft. Of course time will tell.

Carr is for sure not worthy of the 8 spot. Board rankings will change with pro days and I bet you might see some of these QBs fall and skill guys like Watkins perhaps be taken in the top 5.

Slick Rick wrote:I think it's Derek Carr. If not him, one of Johnny Manziel or Teddy Bridgewater, but Derek Carr seems the most likely scenario to me.

Bortles I think is getting so much hype that he can't possibly drop from the top 5. Manziel and Bridgewater are being scrutinized intensely by the media, because they're big school guys who have been hyped for so long, and the media's logic is that once it's time for the draft, it's time to pull a 180. Of course, I expect the 3 QB needy teams ahead of us to draft those 3 guys, which allows the Vikes (The only QB needy team remaining), to do as they wish with the 1st rounder. I think they trade it back to the two teams directly behind them (Detroit and Buffalo) for the 9th or 10th pick, and take Carr in the 2nd.

Im actually warming to the idea of Carr due to Turners presence with the team now. I think if Carr is gone the Vikes will shoot for either Garopollo or Mettenberger, or maybe both?

I kinda mcCaron and we trade back and get
Get some extra picks and him .. We have a lot
Of holes to fill this year

jackal wrote:I kinda mcCaron and we trade back and get
Get some extra picks and him .. We have a lot
Of holes to fill this year

McCarron will be the next Matt Flynn, the next Matt Cassell. There is nothing to like about this guy as far as being a complete QB. He isn't very mobile, he has an average arm, and his accuracy is pretty inconsistent. I would be very disappointed if the Vikings picked McCarron. If we miss out on Carr, I think maybe they'd go with Mettenberger or even the kid Thomas from VT.

80 PurplePride 84 wrote:Logan Thomas is horrible don't let the combine fool you.

The regression he went through from his Freshman to Senior year was like nothing I've ever seen before. He's a measurables guy.

I was touting him as a physical specimen before the combine.

Anyways: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap200000 ... ny-manziel

Wonder if this could open up the door for someone like a Bridgewater or a Manziel to drop down? I wouldn't be surprised in the least.

80 PurplePride 84 wrote:Back to Thomas, after his Freshman year he was considered a future Top 10 pick and then just got progressively worse each year.

Whatever. He'll be lucky to even be drafted.

Thomas sounds a lot like Joe Webb: a tremendous athlete who may not have the skills to succeed as a QB in the NFL.

Phil Simms, interviewed on a radio show yesterday, said that he doesn't think there's a franchise quarterback in the entire 2014 draft class. And that if Geno Smith were in this draft he'd be the best QB available.

There's going to be some reshuffling of opinions by the time the draft rolls around in May, but I have a feeling we're going to see the typical fallback to what are considered safe picks at the top of the draft and teams passing on the QBs. There's so much disagreement right now, it wouldn't surprise me if all of the QBs on the board are still available to the Vikings when they pick 8th. That could be a stroke of luck, or exactly the opposite. Right now I'm not sure I'd want any of them that high, as they all sound like they have a high probability of being massive busts.