Check Down Charlie

[purplehaze]

When QB A is not winning and looking deeply flawed repeatedly and consistently, you have to play QB B and determine if the problems are systemic with the QB or the supporting cast. Now is the time. I have no idea who is the better QB, Ponder or Webb. What I know is dreadful QB play is contributing heavily to losses, week after week. The QB position is now no better than under McNabb last year. In 2008, QB C was benched at 0-2 and QB D went 8-3 and won the division only to be benched after injury for QB C for a playoff loss. Be smart, coaches, sit Ponder, play Webb.

Sure sounds logical to me.

[soflavike]

Let's see...

It took 17 starts for the Bengals to realize Akili Smith wasn't the answer.
It took 14 starts for the Browns to give up on Brady Quinn.
It took 17 starts for the Raiders to send JaMarcus Russell packing.
It took 16 starts for the Cardinals to ship Matt Leinart to Houston

(all highly rated 1st round QB's)

But 21 games into the Ponder era, we're so happy with his play we won't even look at the other guy in a game situation?

[Delaqure]

The games I have seen Webb win has not been because of his qb play. At least that's my opinion, maybe his passing stats are completely different and show he is very accurate and has a great qb rating. The games he had won appear to be with his legs and surprise factor. Once defenses figured him out he lost the games. From what I've seen he has a strong arm but. Is less accurate than Ponder. The games he played in didn't show he read defenses any better than Ponder.

The staff didn't choose Webb to be the Guy for a reason. If Webb really showed he could he the Guy why draft a qb in the first place? It wasn't just the Vikings staff that said We needed a qb. Pretty much all the NFL analysts said the same thing.

That's why I don't think Webb is the Guy.

[purplehaze]

The staff didn't choose Webb to be the Guy for a reason. If Webb really showed he could he the Guy why draft a qb in the first place? It wasn't just the Vikings staff that said We needed a qb. Pretty much all the NFL analysts said the same thing.

Sure, that makes sense. However, this is the same staff who picked a bust in Ponder. So their credibility and judge of talent is pretty much out the window as far as I am concerned. In terms of the QB position.

[soflavike]

The games I have seen Webb win has not been because of his qb play. At least that's my opinion, maybe his passing stats are completely different and show he is very accurate and has a great qb rating. The games he had won appear to be with his legs and surprise factor. Once defenses figured him out he lost the games. From what I've seen he has a strong arm but. Is less accurate than Ponder. The games he played in didn't show he read defenses any better than Ponder.

The staff didn't choose Webb to be the Guy for a reason. If Webb really showed he could he the Guy why draft a qb in the first place? It wasn't just the Vikings staff that said We needed a qb. Pretty much all the NFL analysts said the same thing.

That's why I don't think Webb is the Guy.

Okay, maybe we're talking about a different guy...

Joe Webb came in for an injured Favre against the Bears in December of 2010 and went 15/26 for 129 yds, 1 TD (rushing) and 2 INT's. We lost the game 40-14

Webb started the next game against the Eagles in the snow and went 17/26 for 195 yds, 1 TD rushing, 0 INT's and a win against a heavily favored Eagles team.

In 2011, he replaced Ponder in week 14 against Detroit down 31-14 and almost brought the Vikes back for a win. He threw for one TD and rushed for another (65 yds) and was robbed of the winning TD by a facemask tackle (no call) that resulted in a fumble on the final play of the game. Game ended 34-28.

He replaced Ponder again in Week 16 against the Redskins and went 4/5 for 84 yds. and 2 TD's (a perfect passer rating, by the way). The Vikings won 33-26.

The only team that ever "shut him down" was Chicago on week 17. He still went 17/32 for 200 yds. and 2 TD's (passing) with 1 INT. The Vikes lost 17-13. They stopped him from running, but he threw the ball pretty well.

So, I don't really get the whole idea that Joe Webb can't cut it as a QB. There isn't enough evidence. He is "worth a good, long second look", being that our stud 1st rounder is clearly not getting the job done after 22 starts.

No, I am not Webb's agent.

[CalVike]

From Mark Craig of the Strib:

http://m.startribune.com/sports/?id=180780451&c=y

On the previously mentioned fourth-down play, Ponder absolutely needed to put the ball in play, whether it was intercepted or not. Instead, he threw the ball through the back of the end zone. "I was trying to get the backside slant, and [Brian] Urlacher read it and kind of went backside and covered the slant," Ponder said. "I then tried to get out of the pocket and make a play. I got to keep the ball inbounds. I threw it over [Michael] Jenkins' head, and I didn't let him make a play. Obviously on fourth down, you have to let somebody have an opportunity to make a play." Ponder always says the right things after doing the wrong things.

[soflavike]

From Mark Craig of the Strib:

http://m.startribune.com/sports/?id=180780451&c=y

Pretty obvious stuff... Ponder knows what he should have done, but in the heat of the moment he wet his pants and threw it where nobody could catch it... at the very least you throw up a soft jump-ball to give your receiver a shot at the TD or maybe get a PI call.

[mosscarter]

i've been critical of ponder all along, but caught some flack. but might i ask, what more will it take to prove this guy is not an nfl qb? yesterday he had a 10.3 qbr, which is a joke. i really think they only win 1 more game, and over this final stretch, ponder will really show his true colors (in my opinion he already has). we are in a position, that in order to have change at the qb position its better to lose down the stretch.

[PurpleKoolaid]

Ponder will have a few more of those games where he plays fairly well that will make some think we should keep him around, like Tjoke did. He is Spielmans pick so I'd say he starts at least every remaining game this year no matter how much he continues to stink up the place. Nothing we can do about it. I guess hes our Sanchez. I would hope once we are out of possible playoff contention we would try out MBT. Webb isnt the answer. We should have kept Sage and let Webb go. What if we actually needed a backup QB?

We overpaid/extended ourselves for a RB and LB ( AND AND STUPIDEST FA TE EVER) and by the time we get a WB up to par neither will be on this team, along with PH and JA. But we always have the draft right......

[saint33]

i've been critical of ponder all along, but caught some flack. but might i ask, what more will it take to prove this guy is not an nfl qb? yesterday he had a 10.3 qbr, which is a joke. i really think they only win 1 more game, and over this final stretch, ponder will really show his true colors (in my opinion he already has). we are in a position, that in order to have change at the qb position its better to lose down the stretch.

Where did you come up with the 10.3 qbr? It was 58.2

[saint33]

Ponder will have a few more of those games where he plays fairly well that will make some think we should keep him around, like Tjoke did. He is Spielmans pick so I'd say he starts at least every remaining game this year no matter how much he continues to stink up the place. Nothing we can do about it. I guess hes our Sanchez. I would hope once we are out of possible playoff contention we would try out MBT. Webb isnt the answer. We should have kept Sage and let Webb go. What if we actually needed a backup QB?

We overpaid/extended ourselves for a RB and LB ( AND AND STUPIDEST FA TE EVER) and by the time we get a WB up to par neither will be on this team, along with PH and JA. But we always have the draft right......

How did we overpay for a rb and lb? Our rb is the best in the league, the lb is one of our most productive defensive players and have close to the most cap room in the league

[PurpleKoolaid]

How did we overpay for a rb and lb? Our rb is the best in the league, the lb is one of our most productive defensive players and have close to the most cap room in the league

Because RBs dont win SBs. And Greenway cant cover. He has so many tackles because our DL isnt doing their job, and he lets the guys catch the ball, then tackles them, instead of covering them. I dont know if thats the plan, because its what all our LBs do.

But can you imagine what AD would do on a team with a QB that other teams actually respected? We are talking 2000 yards a season. Then it would be worth the money. But good RBs just aernt that hard to find. And without a QB and a passing game, or at least a steller D, passing AD isnt worth it.

[mosscarter]

none of this is peterson's fault. he has done nothing but run his heart out since we drafted him. its a shame that the prime of his career will end up being wasted. i've been saying it all along, the wins early on this season were only due to a weak schedule. at the end of this year, we will be exactly in the same situation with a much lower pick. without a qb, you have nothing in this league.

[Demi]

But can you imagine what AD would do on a team with a QB that other teams actually respected?

1383 yards and 18 touchdowns I'd guess. 400 or so receiving yards too. And the lowest yards per carry of his career.

[mosscarter]

who knows demi, but i would suspect peterson's career numbers would be among the all time greats (they still will be impressive, but like you said, most were with sub par play at the qb position). any team with a brain should know to stack the box, and force ponder to beat them (which we know he cannot) and peterson still puts up career best numbers. its a shame really.