Vikings Message Board.Com

BTW, don't quote me on these numbers, but a deep dive on the radio covering the Senior Bowl mentioned that this year there were 700 players signing with agents. A normal year is 1800-1900. There are over 500 LESS players signed up for the draft pool this year than a normal year. Next year is going to be crazy for the Senior Bowl, as they have twice as many players that might be "eligible". All this is based on players opting out of playing and staying in school. The upshot is that next year's draft will be chock full of talent well into late rounds, and some NFL teams are trying to shed this year's late round picks and turn them into picks next year.

psjordan wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 9:13 am I know most are scratching heads on the Surratt pick, but I hope the only debate is "when" we took him, not "why".

Having a player transition from O to D and in his first full year playing D ends up at a "top of the conference" level, well, THAT guy can play football. Who knows, when combined with our coaching staff (could be good, could be bad), if he'll turn into a productive starter. But he can play the game, and he was well worth drafting IMO.

Absolutely worth drafting. We took him before Davis so either we don't like Davis all that much or we really love Surratt.

I think that Zimmer has plans for Surratt. Think he is going to be used as more of a Hybird. CB/LB
Seems to have a nose for the ball. Only time will tell.

psjordan wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 9:23 am BTW, don't quote me on these numbers, but a deep dive on the radio covering the Senior Bowl mentioned that this year there were 700 players signing with agents. A normal year is 1800-1900. There are over 500 LESS players signed up for the draft pool this year than a normal year. Next year is going to be crazy for the Senior Bowl, as they have twice as many players that might be "eligible". All this is based on players opting out of playing and staying in school. The upshot is that next year's draft will be chock full of talent well into late rounds, and some NFL teams are trying to shed this year's late round picks and turn them into picks next year.

Definitely the pool of players is smaller this year. My guess is the value next year will be 5th round and later. The top players eligible for the most part entered this draft. Those staying in school, (for the most part) would have fallen on the back end or be UDFA
material. Some of those will improve their stock playing another year, a fair number will simply be a year older and remain back end of the draft.

Will Spielman try to add picks next year, would not surprise me. Not sure if it still is valid later in the draft, but for an example. Giving up a 6th round pick this year should net either a 6 & 7, or possible a fifth. Typically teams view giving up a pick in hand is worth greater value for a future pick. Clearly given the numbers this year vs available draft prospects next year could alter that.

Will also depend on how the Vikings view the remaining talent. They should still be looking for a Safety, WR, and K, with an eye to LB. A developmental DE or OL is also possible. One other possibility would be a KR.

Punkoholic wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 8:58 am

VikingTom wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 7:06 am

Is 14 SAGE SURRATT WR from Wake Chazz's brother or a relation?

Yes they are brothers. I wonder if they would use a late pick on him if he's available or perhaps, hope he gets undrafted and try the updrafted free agent route. Any idea if he's good enough to be drafted?

Also looking at some of the grades on the Vikings picks, all the players got good grades (mostly B's and I think Jones got a B+). And 1 site had a overall grade of a A-. I know most don't like the Surratt pick but if it was bad, wouldn't people grade the pick, at least a C? It seems most are intrigued to see what Zimmer can do with him.

I would not be surprised if Vikings draft his brother to be 3rd wide receiver but I do not think it will happen

RandyMoss84 wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 9:42 am

Punkoholic wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 8:58 am
Yes they are brothers. I wonder if they would use a late pick on him if he's available or perhaps, hope he gets undrafted and try the updrafted free agent route. Any idea if he's good enough to be drafted?

Also looking at some of the grades on the Vikings picks, all the players got good grades (mostly B's and I think Jones got a B+). And 1 site had a overall grade of a A-. I know most don't like the Surratt pick but if it was bad, wouldn't people grade the pick, at least a C? It seems most are intrigued to see what Zimmer can do with him.

I would not be surprised if Vikings draft his brother to be 3rd wide receiver but I do not think it will happen

Like most at this point in the draft he has some holes in his game. He has some size, there may be some coachable aspects to him that would up his value.

RandyMoss84 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:42 pm Any other positions of need? All I can think of is kicker and safety?

Linebacker should warrent two picks.
Center should have a pick attributed to it as well
Cornerback
We need a third Running back
We need a third WR
DT is a bit thin
Plenty of holes left.

halfgiz wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 9:40 am I think that Zimmer has plans for Surratt. Think he is going to be used as more of a Hybird. CB/LB
Seems to have a nose for the ball. Only time will tell.

That's a great point. The Bears took Field and I seem to remember Trib giving us a hard time running. Field is a different story. He makes his hay running. It's one look and then off to the races. You need a body to cover that. Surratt has great pursuit. At the point he'll get destroyed. Doesn't have the size for that. Plus he is a smart kid. I like that Hybird idea.

VikingTom wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 9:42 am

psjordan wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 9:23 am BTW, don't quote me on these numbers, but a deep dive on the radio covering the Senior Bowl mentioned that this year there were 700 players signing with agents. A normal year is 1800-1900. There are over 500 LESS players signed up for the draft pool this year than a normal year. Next year is going to be crazy for the Senior Bowl, as they have twice as many players that might be "eligible". All this is based on players opting out of playing and staying in school. The upshot is that next year's draft will be chock full of talent well into late rounds, and some NFL teams are trying to shed this year's late round picks and turn them into picks next year.

Definitely the pool of players is smaller this year. My guess is the value next year will be 5th round and later. The top players eligible for the most part entered this draft. Those staying in school, (for the most part) would have fallen on the back end or be UDFA
material. Some of those will improve their stock playing another year, a fair number will simply be a year older and remain back end of the draft.

Will Spielman try to add picks next year, would not surprise me. Not sure if it still is valid later in the draft, but for an example. Giving up a 6th round pick this year should net either a 6 & 7, or possible a fifth. Typically teams view giving up a pick in hand is worth greater value for a future pick. Clearly given the numbers this year vs available draft prospects next year could alter that.

Will also depend on how the Vikings view the remaining talent. They should still be looking for a Safety, WR, and K, with an eye to LB. A developmental DE or OL is also possible. One other possibility would be a KR.

In a nut shell this wasn't the year to be stock piling these picks. That's why Speilman couldn't trade up into round 2. He probably offered every pick for one and teams just said Ahhhhhhh no thanks. Next year is when to have the picks. That's when he'll get back into round 7 mode because those picks are worthless. It just saves you from the rookie FA hassle. If you look at the talent pool it does appear weak. Some of these QBs like the guy the 49ers took looks like a big time development guy. Yes they all need time but there are different degrees of development needed. For a No 3 pick I would expect more than what they got.

halfgiz wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 9:40 am I think that Zimmer has plans for Surratt. Think he is going to be used as more of a Hybird. CB/LB
Seems to have a nose for the ball. Only time will tell.

Too slow for CB. OK speed for Safety.

CharVike wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 10:28 am

VikingTom wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 9:42 am

Definitely the pool of players is smaller this year. My guess is the value next year will be 5th round and later. The top players eligible for the most part entered this draft. Those staying in school, (for the most part) would have fallen on the back end or be UDFA
material. Some of those will improve their stock playing another year, a fair number will simply be a year older and remain back end of the draft.

Will Spielman try to add picks next year, would not surprise me. Not sure if it still is valid later in the draft, but for an example. Giving up a 6th round pick this year should net either a 6 & 7, or possible a fifth. Typically teams view giving up a pick in hand is worth greater value for a future pick. Clearly given the numbers this year vs available draft prospects next year could alter that.

Will also depend on how the Vikings view the remaining talent. They should still be looking for a Safety, WR, and K, with an eye to LB. A developmental DE or OL is also possible. One other possibility would be a KR.

In a nut shell this wasn't the year to be stock piling these picks. That's why Speilman couldn't trade up into round 2. He probably offered every pick for one and teams just said Ahhhhhhh no thanks. Next year is when to have the picks. That's when he'll get back into round 7 mode because those picks are worthless. It just saves you from the rookie FA hassle. If you look at the talent pool it does appear weak. Some of these QBs like the guy the 49ers took looks like a big time development guy. Yes they all need time but there are different degrees of development needed. For a No 3 pick I would expect more than what they got.

Completely disagree. Lance is a fantastic Qb prospect. Would be number one in most years.

Zim said they were looking for size on the OL so here is a pick that will convince me. Deonte Brown, G, Alabama (6-3, 364 pounds). That's a monster. I'm sure there are negatives like no lateral movement, no quick twich, no waist bend, no knee bend ect... Try moving that guy off the point. Better bring two. Makes the old Gilbert Brown look like a stick. This pick would be worth the laugh.

VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Fri Apr 30, 2021 6:22 pm Assuming Rodgers is gone Mel is already declaring Fields to be the best QB in the NFC North. Whatever idiot.

I've never seen a player get the attention that Fields has received. You hear more about him than the top guy. He has a good media rep with many connections. I doubt he beats out Dalton or Foles. And that should be a slam dunk for a top QB prospect.

VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 9:33 am

psjordan wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 9:13 am I know most are scratching heads on the Surratt pick, but I hope the only debate is "when" we took him, not "why".

Having a player transition from O to D and in his first full year playing D ends up at a "top of the conference" level, well, THAT guy can play football. Who knows, when combined with our coaching staff (could be good, could be bad), if he'll turn into a productive starter. But he can play the game, and he was well worth drafting IMO.

Absolutely worth drafting. We took him before Davis so either we don't like Davis all that much or we really love Surratt.

Yeah I’m seeing mixed reviews on Surratt. Maybe it was more of a BPA pick for them given their board. I wasn’t a huge fan of the pick. I wanted Melifonwu from Cuse.

But I honestly can’t complain about this draft so far. Zim and Rick have finally escaped their comfort zone and taken some offensive lineman with an anchor over athleticism. And drafted an earlier QB.

Never expected them to take Davis. It was down to Trey Smith and Davis for me. But figured it was a pipe dream that they invest in two offensive lineman in their first couple picks. Never thought it would happen. I’ll happily eat crow on that one

Summary of the Vikings 3rd round picks:

- Kellen Mond. Good developmental QB prospect. Undeniable physical ability, and a multi-threat capable player who can move, keep plays alive with his feet by escaping pressure, and can pick up yards on the ground. Mond has struggled with consistency throughout his college career, both in terms of accuracy and decision-making. If he can smooth out his game I could see him developing into an impact starter. If he can't then he'll likely be a journeyman backup. I think we'll know more about where he's at in terms of development when it comes time to extend Cousins again. If the Vikings don't extend Kirk, then they like where Mond is at. If they do, then Mond isn't showing them what they need to see. This was a good pick, but it will also be interesting to see how Trask and Mills do over time compared to Mond.

- Chazz Surratt. Very athletic player. Classic Spielman mid-round pick with a high ceiling if he develops. He compares to a guy like Shaq Thompson of the Panthers and has a shot at getting on the field immediately at weakside LB. He'll need to continue to develop quickly, but he's in an almost ideal spot to do so and if he pans out all this angst I see about picking him is going to disappear quickly.

- Wyatt Davis. I thought Davis would go at the top of Round 2, so getting him in the middle 3rd is amazing value. Davis is a leader on the field. He's got enough size to hold up at the point of attack but he also moves very well. I think Davis wins the starting LG role and slots in next to Darrisaw to start this season. I don't think the Vikings need to look back from there. Davis is the pick in this round that I have the most confidence will become a regular starter and long-term player for the Vikings.

- Patrick Jones. Jones is another high ceiling Spielman classic mid-rounder. He has a great motor. He's going to bring everything he's got on every play and will chase sideline to sideline all game. If Jones can develop physically by putting on good weight and adding functional strength along with refining his technique, he can become a complete impact DE as a pro. That won't happen quickly, so the impact of this pick likely won't show up for another 2 or so seasons.

Like many on this thread, I question some of the decisions that were made, like not moving up to snag Trask and/or choosing Mond over Mills, and passing on Ronnie Perkins who looked like a pretty solid choice at DE. Others passed on him too as some noted, but that is a decision that might come back to haunt those teams. We'll see if Spielman and Zimmer guessed right on some of these picks.