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Re: 2014-2015 Master Injury Thread
Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 12:01 am
by Pondering Her Percy
Demi wrote:Didn't even realize that was "negative". Just an observation. But I guess our lack of an offense for the last decade is a sore spot....
Honestly, how often has the team used a tight end out wide? Compared to other teams doesn't seem that often...
Every observation you make is negative Demi. That's exactly why I am baffled that you actually watch the Vikings when you literally do nothing but bait and throw out negative comments. You are literally a ghost on here when anything positive is going on. And if you are by chance on here then, you find anything negative you can to whine and cry about. I don't even understand how that can be enjoyable.
As for the TE, I'm not sure where you're going with this but Rudolph lined up more often in the slot this year than anything before he was hurt. Turner utilizes his TE's out wide more vs. in tight on the line. So in a way, he's basically playing as a WR. I guess it depends what you're considering "out wide". Jordan Cameron played 60% of his snaps out of the slot last season and Rudolph probably won't be far off that mark. So yes, we do use a TE out wide more compared to coming off the line in tight. So if that's what you're arguing, then you might as well just stop now.
Re: 2014-2015 Master Injury Thread
Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 12:27 am
by Demi
I'm not sure where you're going with this but Rudolph lined up more often in the slot this year than anything before he was hurt.
He only played in three games. And since then I don't recall any tight end being used in the slot all that often. I'm not "going" anywhere. Just an observation...
Re: 2014-2015 Master Injury Thread
Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 9:16 am
by DK Sweets
Demi wrote:Didn't even realize that was "negative". Just an observation. But I guess our lack of an offense for the last decade is a sore spot....
Honestly, how often has the team used a tight end out wide? Compared to other teams doesn't seem that often...
See, this is a type of post I can appreciate. I don't agree with it, but at least it has a point other than simply making a snide comment.
To your main point, what are the Vikings supposed to do? Ellison is a blocking specialist and Ford is average on a good day. There isn't a great option to be flexed into the slot right now. And honestly, if Ellison wasn't on the field, our O-Line would be getting Teddy killed. I don't think the problem is with Norv's play calling.
Re: 2014-2015 Master Injury Thread
Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 5:32 pm
by Pondering Her Percy
Demi wrote:
He only played in three games. And since then I don't recall any tight end being used in the slot all that often. I'm not "going" anywhere. Just an observation...
And in those 3 games, he was being used in the slot. Just like Cameron was. So like I said, I'm not sure where you're going with this. That was a big reason Wright broke out vs ATL. He was playing in the slot in place of Rudolph. I'm not saying Rudolph was in the slot all the time but he lined up there often enough before he was hurt. Like I said, that's how Turner utilizes his TEs.
Re: 2014-2015 Master Injury Thread
Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 6:30 pm
by Pondering Her Percy
Cameron did a sizable chunk of his damage when flexed out into the slot, just like Gates has done with the Chargers. According to Pro Football Focus, Cameron ran 375 of his 622 routes -- 60.3 percent -- out of the slot last season. Only Tony Gonzalez of the Atlanta Falcons lined up as a slot receiver more often among qualifying tight ends.
Re: 2014-2015 Master Injury Thread
Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 6:52 pm
by frosted
Chase Ford: 172 total pass routes, 105 run from the slot (61%)
Kyle Rudolph: 84 total pass routes, 57 run from the slot (67.9%)
These numbers are current as of our last game, courtesy of Pro Football Focus.
For reference, Antonio Gates has run 62.9% of his routes from the slot, Gronk is at 47.7%, and Jimmy Graham at 43%.
Re: 2014-2015 Master Injury Thread
Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 7:26 pm
by Demi
Thanks. It didn't seem like we used the tight end in the slot that much this year. And often they were motioned next to the tackle. We'll see going forward. I doubt it helped how gimpy Rudolph looked. Hopefully he's 100%, looked like an offensive linemen out there at points with that injury.
Re: 2014-2015 Master Injury Thread
Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 8:05 pm
by Pondering Her Percy
Demi wrote:Thanks. It didn't seem like we used the tight end in the slot that much this year. And often they were motioned next to the tackle. We'll see going forward. I doubt it helped how gimpy Rudolph looked. Hopefully he's 100%, looked like an offensive linemen out there at points with that injury.
That's how Turner's offense has operated for a while now. It's a big reason why he has so much success with TEs because he gets them out in open space
Re: 2014-2015 Master Injury Thread
Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 8:05 pm
by Pondering Her Percy
frosted wrote:Chase Ford: 172 total pass routes, 105 run from the slot (61%)
Kyle Rudolph: 84 total pass routes, 57 run from the slot (67.9%)
These numbers are current as of our last game, courtesy of Pro Football Focus.
For reference, Antonio Gates has run 62.9% of his routes from the slot, Gronk is at 47.7%, and Jimmy Graham at 43%.
Appreciate the numbers frosted! I was looking earlier but couldn't find the link I was looking for
Re: 2014-2015 Master Injury Thread
Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 8:20 pm
by PurpleMustReign
frosted wrote:Chase Ford: 172 total pass routes, 105 run from the slot (61%)
Kyle Rudolph: 84 total pass routes, 57 run from the slot (67.9%)
These numbers are current as of our last game, courtesy of Pro Football Focus.
For reference, Antonio Gates has run 62.9% of his routes from the slot, Gronk is at 47.7%, and Jimmy Graham at 43%.
Demi's comment made me curious... does that include when they were motioned into the backfield or otherwise?
Re: 2014-2015 Master Injury Thread
Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 8:22 pm
by PurpleMustReign
DKSweets wrote:See, this is a type of post I can appreciate. I don't agree with it, but at least it has a point other than simply making a snide comment.
To your main point, what are the Vikings supposed to do? Ellison is a blocking specialist and Ford is average on a good day. There isn't a great option to be flexed into the slot right now. And honestly, if Ellison wasn't on the field, our O-Line would be getting Teddy killed. I don't think the problem is with Norv's play calling.
I disagree about Chase Ford being average on a good day. He has good hands and some speed, and seems able to get separation on his routes, something our WRs seem to struggle with. I like him a lot, and IMO he filled in very admirably for Rudolph while he was hurt.
Re: 2014-2015 Master Injury Thread
Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 8:38 pm
by Pondering Her Percy
PurpleMustReign wrote:
Demi's comment made me curious... does that include when they were motioned into the backfield or otherwise?
I doubt it. I mean if a RB or WR is lined up out wide and then motions into the backfield to take a handoff then they're running out of the backfield, not out wide or on an end around. If a TE leaves the slot before the ball is snapped, I would imagine it doesn't count as him running out of the slot. Either way, I don't ever remember our TEs going into the backfield often
Re: 2014-2015 Master Injury Thread
Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 2:32 pm
by S197
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
I doubt it. I mean if a RB or WR is lined up out wide and then motions into the backfield to take a handoff then they're running out of the backfield, not out wide or on an end around. If a TE leaves the slot before the ball is snapped, I would imagine it doesn't count as him running out of the slot. Either way, I don't ever remember our TEs going into the backfield often
Maybe not into the backfield but they often get motioned in to the wing position. Whether PFF considers that still in the slot or not, I'm not sure.
Edit: I guess in that case they aren't running a pass route most of the time so the answer is probably "no."
Re: 2014-2015 Master Injury Thread
Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 1:23 pm
by Pondering Her Percy
Neither Jennings nor Jarius Wright are practicing today. That's not a good sign for an already struggling WR corps
Re: 2014-2015 Master Injury Thread
Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 1:35 pm
by dead_poet
Pondering Her Percy wrote:Neither Jennings nor Jarius Wright are practicing today. That's not a good sign for an already struggling WR corps
Silver lining: we could see more of Charles Johnson. 6-foot-2, 215 pounds with 4.38 wheels.
From head coach Mike Pettine this summer: "I went on YouTube and watched his Grand Valley (State) highlights. They were impressive," said Pettine. "... It’s worth taking a peek at. He’s explosive. He’s a guy that is deceptively fast. He doesn’t look like he’s covering a lot of ground but he is. I think his catch radius is bigger than most. He’s got long arms and he’s got (big) hands."
Not expecting much but given our WR luck but it'd be nice if we already had a post-Jennings candidate. Teddy seemed to have a rapport with him last week.