Re: PHP's New and Improved Vikings Mock Offseason
Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2021 7:03 pm
Bailey released so you’re batting 1.000 so far!!!!!
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Sad to hear about Bailey but it was time, I thank Bailey for the good year last year and I wish him the best
So is this the year you move O'Neil to LT and see if he's worth the big bucks or do you start Ezra on that side?StumpHunter wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 12:42 pm Crunched the numbers for your plan prior to non-Viking FA signings now that the cap has been set at 182.5.
In the end the Vikings would have about 19 million available (after signing rookies and Weatherly) to make free agent moves. You are however shrinking the 2022 cap from 50 million to 20 though and any multi year contracts given out this season would ensure we have no cap next season.
Fortunately, or unfortunately depending on how you look at it, we only have one player worth extending next season in O'Neil, so there isn't a huge need for cap next year. Probably need only 15 million to not need to make any cuts.
I give Hill a one year contract, start him at RT and move O'Neil to LT. If the plan was to play Cleveland at tackle he would have came into camp last year as a tackle, not a guard.Maelstrom88 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 8:28 pmSo is this the year you move O'Neil to LT and see if he's worth the big bucks or do you start Ezra on that side?StumpHunter wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 12:42 pm Crunched the numbers for your plan prior to non-Viking FA signings now that the cap has been set at 182.5.
In the end the Vikings would have about 19 million available (after signing rookies and Weatherly) to make free agent moves. You are however shrinking the 2022 cap from 50 million to 20 though and any multi year contracts given out this season would ensure we have no cap next season.
Fortunately, or unfortunately depending on how you look at it, we only have one player worth extending next season in O'Neil, so there isn't a huge need for cap next year. Probably need only 15 million to not need to make any cuts.
Yeah it will definitely be interesting to see how it shakes out.StumpHunter wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:11 pmI give Hill a one year contract, start him at RT and move O'Neil to LT. If the plan was to play Cleveland at tackle he would have came into camp last year as a tackle, not a guard.Maelstrom88 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 8:28 pm
So is this the year you move O'Neil to LT and see if he's worth the big bucks or do you start Ezra on that side?
I dont get why you're so adamant about Cleveland being a guard just because that's where he was placed this year. He came into camp as a guard because they were already set at tackle. They didnt have even an average guard on either side of the line. Cleveland was the best OL available in round 2 when we picked. He was the definition of a BPA pick. They could've thought Cleveland was going to be the next Joe Thomas, he was going to start over Reiff or ONeill day 1 of his rookie year. Correct? Like you think just because they put him at guard that means they think he wasnt going to be a good tackle. Think about the actual situation. So if you just draft an offensive tackle in the 2nd round who you're high on but know he wont see the field due to who your tackles currently are, would you put him at guard (ESPECIALLY when you know your guard room consists of Dakota Dozier, Brett Jones, Pat Elflein and Dru Samia)? Like just because he was at guard this year doesnt mean jack squat. They obviously felt more comfortable cutting Reiff than anyone else because they actually had a backup plan there. There is no backup plan for Barr. We'll see this year if they truly "werent high on Cleveland as a tackle" when they have a wide open hole at LT. Not saying it's a guarantee, but I would be shocked if they dont have Cleveland at LT or move Oneill and put Cleveland at RT. If they dont do it, I think it's extremely dumb. Again, they need true guards, not guys that have played a different position their entire life playing guard.StumpHunter wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:11 pmI give Hill a one year contract, start him at RT and move O'Neil to LT. If the plan was to play Cleveland at tackle he would have came into camp last year as a tackle, not a guard.Maelstrom88 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 8:28 pm
So is this the year you move O'Neil to LT and see if he's worth the big bucks or do you start Ezra on that side?
All valid points except for two small flaws in your logic. Cleveland wasn't the day 1 starter at guard either. Wasn't even the backup.Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 11:06 amI dont get why you're so adamant about Cleveland being a guard just because that's where he was placed this year. He came into camp as a guard because they were already set at tackle. They didnt have even an average guard on either side of the line. Cleveland was the best OL available in round 2 when we picked. He was the definition of a BPA pick. They could've thought Cleveland was going to be the next Joe Thomas, he was going to start over Reiff or ONeill day 1 of his rookie year. Correct? Like you think just because they put him at guard that means they think he wasnt going to be a good tackle. Think about the actual situation. So if you just draft an offensive tackle in the 2nd round who you're high on but know he wont see the field due to who your tackles currently are, would you put him at guard (ESPECIALLY when you know your guard room consists of Dakota Dozier, Brett Jones, Pat Elflein and Dru Samia)? Like just because he was at guard this year doesnt mean jack squat. They obviously felt more comfortable cutting Reiff than anyone else because they actually had a backup plan there. There is no backup plan for Barr. We'll see this year if they truly "werent high on Cleveland as a tackle" when they have a wide open hole at LT. Not saying it's a guarantee, but I would be shocked if they dont have Cleveland at LT or move Oneill and put Cleveland at RT. If they dont do it, I think it's extremely dumb. Again, they need true guards, not guys that have played a different position their entire life playing guard.StumpHunter wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:11 pm
I give Hill a one year contract, start him at RT and move O'Neil to LT. If the plan was to play Cleveland at tackle he would have came into camp last year as a tackle, not a guard.
Just like Justin Jefferson wasnt the day 1 starter at WR. Bisi Johnson was. They had a ROY level talent sitting the bench the first two weeks of the season....my point? Does that surprise you with Zimmer? Unless he's absolutely bare bones at a position, he wont start a rookie day 1. That's just Zim. I take Cleveland not playing day 1 with a grain of salt.StumpHunter wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 12:45 pm
All valid points except for two small flaws in your logic. Cleveland wasn't the day 1 starter at guard either. Wasn't even the backup.
Exactly!!! Why do you think the Vikings were ready to move on from Reiff, because they just drafted Cleveland and he carried a big cap number. They ask Reiff to take a pay cut or get released. He chose pay cut. So when he did, yes, they were set at tackle. But it was no skin off their back if he walked. They save cap and drafted Cleveland. Again, they had a backup plan so they didnt care.Here is the other place your argument breaks down: The Vikings weren't set at tackle in 2020. They were in fact ready to move on from their LT and were willing to let Reiff walk 2 weeks before the season started.
No there was not just as much opportunity at LT. There just wasnt. They made their own bed by going into another season with terrible guards. But I can bet money they looked at it as "would we rather have Reiff and then Cleveland at RG or Cleveland at LT and Elflein/Samia at RG"? But again, they made their bed going in with guards like that.There was just as much of an opportunity to start at LT as there was guard going into camp for Cleveland. The Vikings, knowing that, didn't see which one he was better at going into camp and play him there. Instead they played him at the position they felt he was the best fit at.
They could be wrong and Cleveland is a bad guard and is just the backup swing tackle most scouts had him as prior to the draft, but until he plays one snap in practice at LT for the team that drafted him, I will assume he is a guard for the team that drafted him.
Justin Jefferson played more snaps than the guy who "started" from day 1. He also wasn't playing TE in camp, he was playing the position the Vikings expected him to play when he finally got a chance.Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 1:42 pm
Just like Justin Jefferson wasnt the day 1 starter at WR. Bisi Johnson was. They had a ROY level talent sitting the bench the first two weeks of the season....my point? Does that surprise you with Zimmer? Unless he's absolutely bare bones at a position, he wont start a rookie day 1. That's just Zim. I take Cleveland not playing day 1 with a grain of salt.
You contradict yourself. He was the the guy the Vikings were going to plug in at LT (despite having played 0 snaps at LT all camp), but there wasn't an opportunity to start at LT?Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 1:42 pmExactly!!! Why do you think the Vikings were ready to move on from Reiff, because they just drafted Cleveland and he carried a big cap number. They ask Reiff to take a pay cut or get released. He chose pay cut. So when he did, yes, they were set at tackle. But it was no skin off their back if he walked. They save cap and drafted Cleveland. Again, they had a backup plan so they didnt care.Here is the other place your argument breaks down: The Vikings weren't set at tackle in 2020. They were in fact ready to move on from their LT and were willing to let Reiff walk 2 weeks before the season started.
No there was not just as much opportunity at LT. There just wasnt. They made their own bed by going into another season with terrible guards. But I can bet money they looked at it as "would we rather have Reiff and then Cleveland at RG or Cleveland at LT and Elflein/Samia at RG"? But again, they made their bed going in with guards like that.There was just as much of an opportunity to start at LT as there was guard going into camp for Cleveland. The Vikings, knowing that, didn't see which one he was better at going into camp and play him there. Instead they played him at the position they felt he was the best fit at.
They could be wrong and Cleveland is a bad guard and is just the backup swing tackle most scouts had him as prior to the draft, but until he plays one snap in practice at LT for the team that drafted him, I will assume he is a guard for the team that drafted him.
Maybe it will mean Zimmer is gone, maybe R.S.808vikingsfan wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 8:26 pm Thanks PHP. Always look forward to your mocks. Appreciate all the work you put in these.
Sadly, I'm having a hard time getting excited for this season. With so much change in personnel, I don't see this staff handling it very well. Another year of excuses and growing pains. Vikings really need to clean house and start from scratch.. starting with the QB. Any chance we get good news on march 17?
Zimmer and Rick will never be gone until Wilf dies or they would have been fired years agoForeman44 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 12, 2021 5:13 pmMaybe it will mean Zimmer is gone, maybe R.S.808vikingsfan wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 8:26 pm Thanks PHP. Always look forward to your mocks. Appreciate all the work you put in these.
Sadly, I'm having a hard time getting excited for this season. With so much change in personnel, I don't see this staff handling it very well. Another year of excuses and growing pains. Vikings really need to clean house and start from scratch.. starting with the QB. Any chance we get good news on march 17?