Kalil and His Fellow Linemen

[dead_poet]

I think Kalil's injury played a bigger role than some think. He did improve as the season went on and also had a strong rookie year. I wouldn't write him off just yet.

And he's better than the other two that the Vikings were reportedly eyeing (Claiborne and Blackmon). In retrospect Kuechly may have been the only guy that they had a shot at at #4 that's proved to be a better prospect. Maybe Gilmore. MAYBE Poe. All three likely would've been considered a bit of a reach at the Vikings position.

I'm not worried. ...Yet.

[KSViking]

Speaking personally, I wouldn't call Spielman bad at his job, but one wonders if he is good enough to turn this team into a contender. Kalil, for example, is a legit NFL player, but he doesn't appear to be as good as he would have needed to be to justify such a high draft choice. Last year, he didn't even play like one of the better left tackles in the league. As for Loadholt, I put him in the middle of the pack -- stout in run support, but not so good in pass protection. I think even less of the guard play than of the tackle play.

While I don't like Spielman, I don't blame him for Drafting Matt Kalil. I mean he is responsible, but Matt was the consensus pick at that position, and he filled a NEED on our team. I was happy to see him drafted, I still think he is good, but I agree, he had a bad year. I personally feel that we needed to bring in a new O-Line coach to help Kalil and the rest, I haven't felt that we have been getting better in general with Davidson.

Loadholt, he was the only guy that I felt improved at all last year. He has always been pretty dominant run blocker, but I felt he improved his pass protection a bit last year. Its still not steller, but better.

Fusco, I still don't see what everyone else does regarding him. I've said it before, and got crucified for saying so, but he certainly is not some top guard in the league. Average at best IMHO.

Johnson - Everyone seems to be in agreement on this guy, he played horrible at LT, and played just as bad at LG. I don't know why anyone would sign him to even be a backup in the league.

Sullivan - Once again, I'm not as impressed with him as the majority of people on this board. I think he is above average at best. He certainly isn't bad, and not the weak link, but the games that I watched, seemed to me that the interior blitzes were never getting picked up by the 3 guys in the middle. Johnson, Sully, and Fusco. Opposing teams had their way with us when blitzing, and our QBs were all too crappy to take advantage of that the way some of the better teams do.


I will probably get booed off of the board , but the Vikings right now do not have many "stars" on either side of the ball. AP is about the beginning and end of that line. We have a lot of players that are good, and we have quite a few positions that are down right horrible. I know that pro bowl voting is bias and lost almost all credibility to me when Jeff Saturday made it last year, even after being benched by the Packers midway through the year. However, the lack of Vikings on those teams, is a pretty good indication that we don't have many of those Top 5 at their respective positions. Smith is a really good safety, but he isn't a top 5. Unless we are separating out SS and FS, and even then, he might not make the cut. I'm happy with Rudolph at TE, but once again, not Top 5. We might have a Top5 Full back in Felton if you are just judging based on blocking ability. Point being, we have some up and coming guys, that could end up being Blue chip players. Smith, Patterson, Rhodes, Rudolph ect. But it seems that this team all too often either puts its head in the sand, or lies to itself regarding talent at some of the positions. Can anyone honestly say that you thought Charlie Johnson was going to be a good LG last year? Was anyone happy with our LB lineup going into the season? Erin Henderson? And what about the "other" safety, the one not occupied by our best defensive player. Sendejo? Raymond? Sanford? Did any of those guys give anyone else warm fuzzies going into last season? and why haven't we tried to fill Pat Williams vacant spot with someone worthwhile? Letroy Guion is probably the next highest paid, lowest talent guy on the team after Charlie Johnson. People like to give Rick Spielman credit for these great drafts, citing how many of the players drafted are still on the team 2-3 years after the draft. I say thats because the Vikings have a hard time cutting their losses and adjusting. Instead we ride out the mediocrity. Even though it didn't turn out well at all, I admire that the Vikings went out and got Josh Freeman, was one of the few times that a big glaring problem was staring them in the face, and they did something to try to address it. It was a swing and a miss this time, but prefer watching a team go down swinging, than striking out standing there complacent.

It sucks to be a realist, I depress myself sometimes.

[Mothman]

I will probably get booed off of the board , but the Vikings right now do not have many "stars" on either side of the ball. AP is about the beginning and end of that line. We have a lot of players that are good, and we have quite a few positions that are down right horrible. I know that pro bowl voting is bias and lost almost all credibility to me when Jeff Saturday made it last year, even after being benched by the Packers midway through the year. However, the lack of Vikings on those teams, is a pretty good indication that we don't have many of those Top 5 at their respective positions. Smith is a really good safety, but he isn't a top 5. Unless we are separating out SS and FS, and even then, he might not make the cut. I'm happy with Rudolph at TE, but once again, not Top 5. We might have a Top5 Full back in Felton if you are just judging based on blocking ability. Point being, we have some up and coming guys, that could end up being Blue chip players. Smith, Patterson, Rhodes, Rudolph ect. But it seems that this team all too often either puts its head in the sand, or lies to itself regarding talent at some of the positions. Can anyone honestly say that you thought Charlie Johnson was going to be a good LG last year? Was anyone happy with our LB lineup going into the season? Erin Henderson? And what about the "other" safety, the one not occupied by our best defensive player. Sendejo? Raymond? Sanford? Did any of those guys give anyone else warm fuzzies going into last season? and why haven't we tried to fill Pat Williams vacant spot with someone worthwhile? Letroy Guion is probably the next highest paid, lowest talent guy on the team after Charlie Johnson. People like to give Rick Spielman credit for these great drafts, citing how many of the players drafted are still on the team 2-3 years after the draft. I say thats because the Vikings have a hard time cutting their losses and adjusting. Instead we ride out the mediocrity. Even though it didn't turn out well at all, I admire that the Vikings went out and got Josh Freeman, was one of the few times that a big glaring problem was staring them in the face, and they did something to try to address it. It was a swing and a miss this time, but prefer watching a team go down swinging, than striking out standing there complacent.

... and yet you don't seem to like that kind of approach in the draft.

I think cap limitations have had something to do with not addressing some of the positions you're talking about and I also think they've wanted to give some players time to develop and not rush to decisions and impatiently cycle through them but you're right that the team is currently lacking in star power, especially on defense. With Allen likely gone and Williams best years as a pro apparently behind him, I'm not sure there is a star or impact player on side of the ball.

I do think they need to become more aggressive about upgrading positions. As far as the OP and the o-line go: I suspect Kalil experienced a sophomore slump but will be fine. Loadholt's a frustrating player but they can win with him if they compensate for his pass protection issues. Ditto for Sullivan, who's a good, solid center. They can better at guard and hopefully, they will. Fusco showed progress in year 2 and if he continues to develop, he might lock that position down for a while. I think we'll see an effort to upgrade left guard this season.

[KSViking]

... and yet you don't seem to like that kind of approach in the draft.

Ah, thats because the only potential we lost by trying to upgrade with Freeman was Cap money. When you get aggressive in the draft, and trade 3 nice early round picks for 1 guy, just seems to me that you would get more potential value out of the 3 players, than the 1 you trade it for. But, once again, its a risk either way.

I agree with your assessment of the O-Line. Im not sold on Fusco, but would be happy if they brought in a middle of the road FA to "compete" with Fusco for the RG spot. Let the best man win. If he doesn't win the spot, then at least we have some depth at the position.

Possible FAs: Jon Asamoah, Chad Rinehart, if he gets cut from the Chargers as expected. There are some other likely cuts due to salary cap issues that the Vikings might be able to take advantage of the situation. No need to spend kind of money to get the best guy out there, but someone who could push for playing time against Fusco would make me happy.

[Mothman]

Ah, thats because the only potential we lost by trying to upgrade with Freeman was Cap money. When you get aggressive in the draft, and trade 3 nice early round picks for 1 guy, just seems to me that you would get more potential value out of the 3 players, than the 1 you trade it for. But, once again, its a risk either way.

Exactly. It's a risk either way and what you end up with is entirely dependent on the players selected and how they perform. The risk and reward of each scenario has to be weighed carefully but I think there are times when those trades make sense.

I agree with your assessment of the O-Line. Im not sold on Fusco, but would be happy if they brought in a middle of the road FA to "compete" with Fusco for the RG spot. Let the best man win. If he doesn't win the spot, then at least we have some depth at the position.

Their goal might be to develop that depth (I'm basing that on their selection of two interior o-linemen last year) but again, either approach can work. The important thing is to improve positions and not be complacent!

[PurpleKoolaid]

I am a little shocked, because of what a few 'experts' or websites graded our oline, that people think we have a good one. We don't. Some of you have an extremely short memory. AD ran into as many stone walls as any RB in the NFL, and yet we have excellent run blockers? We have a superb RB, yes. A great FB, yes. And our pass protection isn't any better really then it has been in years, when most of your were yelling for peoples heads. Just because Frazier is gone, doesn't mean our Oline is instantly upgraded. I would love to see us try and get good money and/or trade for Loadfat and put Webb in as starter. Other then he first play in the endzone, he played alright. And ALOT cheaper then Loadfat. And also good run blocking. You know why? Because we have Felton and AD.

[dead_poet]

I am a little shocked, because of what a few 'experts' or websites graded our oline, that people think we have a good one. We don't. Some of you have an extremely short memory. AD ran into as many stone walls as any RB in the NFL, and yet we have excellent run blockers? We have a superb RB, yes. A great FB, yes. And our pass protection isn't any better really then it has been in years, when most of your were yelling for peoples heads. Just because Frazier is gone, doesn't mean our Oline is instantly upgraded. I would love to see us try and get good money and/or trade for Loadfat and put Webb in as starter. Other then he first play in the endzone, he played alright. And ALOT cheaper then Loadfat. And also good run blocking. You know why? Because we have Felton and AD.

OMG. I don't even know where to begin. You think our offensive line is bad now, start Webb for a few games. You'll be clamoring for Loadholt back.

Webb better than Loadholt. That's one of the most ridiculous things I've read today. If you truly believe that, I seriously question your talent evaluation skills. No coach in their right MIND would start Webb over Loadholt.

Our offensive line may not be a strength (debatable) but as a unit, it's certainly not below-par.

Start Webb. Might as well start Joe Webb while you're at it.

[PurpleKoolaid]

How many games have you seen Webb play Mr Poet?

[dead_poet]

How many games have you seen Webb play Mr Poet?

I've unfortunately watched a ton of Bears games. I've read the stats. For example, in 2011, he committed a league-high 15 penalties resulting in eight stalled drives and blew 11.5 blocks that led directly to sacks or holding penalties and was responsible for 38 pressures.

He got demoted from starting left tackle to starting right tackle to swing tackle to being beat out by a fifth-round rookie to accepting a pay cut to being waived. He couldn't hold down a job on what was arguably one of the worst offensive lines in the league. He got Cutler smashed often and wasn't particularly effective in the run game.

Prior to the 2011 season, the whogivesafukknow-nothings at Pro Football Focus called Webb the worst RT in the league in pass protection and wondered why the Bears would then move him over to the quarterback’s blindside. Following the 2011 season, Pro Football Focus ranked Webb the worst full-time starter at LT in the NFL. After 2012, he was responsible for seven sacks and 29 pressures.

Just WATCH HIM "PLAY." It's not that difficult to see a guy that's largely ineffective. But I'll say this, he did improve over the course of his career thus far. He's just still not very good.

[Mothman]

Prior to the 2011 season, the whogivesafukknow-nothings at Pro Football Focus called Webb the worst RT in the league in pass protection and wondered why the Bears would then move him over to the quarterback’s blindside.

That was truly funny.

Following the 2011 season, Pro Football Focus ranked Webb the worst full-time starter at LT in the NFL. After 2012, he was responsible for seven sacks and 29 pressures.

Just WATCH HIM "PLAY." It's not that difficult to see a guy that's largely ineffective. But I'll say this, he did improve over the course of his career thus far. He's just still not very good.

No, he's not... I've been watching him play for years and as NFL tackles go, he's pretty brutal.

[Eli]

Webb started for Loadholt in the Thursday night win against the Redskins. He looked pretty sharp in both pass and run coverage. How was he graded by PFF in that game? I think Kalil gave up the only sack of the game. I watched the whole first half on offense just now, and Webb's guy never laid a hand on Ponder.

It's actually a little surprising how much better Webb moves than Loadholt, who always appears to be off balance or just plain flat on his back after every play. Loadholt looks like he struggles with his own size.

[frosted]

Man, Webb is stellar. Who signed that guy?

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

[S197]

Webb started for Loadholt in the Thursday night win against the Redskins. He looked pretty sharp in both pass and run coverage. How was he graded by PFF in that game? I think Kalil gave up the only sack of the game. I watched the whole first half on offense just now, and Webb's guy never laid a hand on Ponder.

It's actually a little surprising how much better Webb moves than Loadholt, who always appears to be off balance or just plain flat on his back after every play. Loadholt looks like he struggles with his own size.

Was that the game the end blew past him in five nanoseconds to get a strip sack in the endzone for a TD?

[Eli]

Was that the game the end blew past him in five nanoseconds to get a strip sack in the endzone for a TD?

No, that was early in the second half of the previous game in Dallas, the first play where he came in after Loadholt got hurt. A major part of that play was Ponder's usual cluelessness in the pocket, never feeling the deep pressure or moving up in the pocket, then trying to sidearm some kind of a pass out of the end zone.

[dead_poet]

No, that was early in the second half of the previous game in Dallas, the first play where he came in after Loadholt got hurt. A major part of that play was Ponder's usual cluelessness in the pocket, never feeling the deep pressure or moving up in the pocket, then trying to sidearm some kind of a pass out of the end zone.

I don't know how you can absolve Webb for this: http://www.dallascowboys.com/news/artic ... a52733600d

Ponder needed to get that ball out quicker, but Webb got beat pure and simple. It's also a questionable call from Musgrave as that's clearly a slower-developing play. Ponder didn't have much room to move up.