lol, watch this

[PurpleHalo]

Alot of good ideas about what the Vikings are trying to do with the different personnel moves but:
The more I hear the more I don't think they know what the #### they are doing

If they think Ponder is a better option that Cassel they truly are clueless. Unless they are tanking, and are seeing just how inept he is. Cassel lost vs a grade A defense in the panthers, they could be the best defense in the NFL and cause real issues for teams if they make the playoffs.

[Reignman]

I think we went over this already. Ponder has been missing wide open receivers since game one.

Exactly! He looks no different now than he has at any point in his career and yet the stooges running the show still need to see more. For some reason they still believe this bust is going to turn it on all of a sudden if he just keeps getting more snaps.

Not seeing Jennings wide open and then the horrible throw when he did see him open didn't surprise me at all. I watch the games. Ponders suck is the 12th defender out there. What makes it worse is watching Rodgers make impossible throws in non existent windows and then watching Flounder horribly miss a guy in the most wide open window possible in this league.

What makes me puke is when I hear Frazier say Ponder gives us the best chance to win. Maybe it's just "coach speak" whatever that is, but you can't make such a statement without either assuming the rest of us are idiots or you want us to believe you're an idiot. And what about the 52 other players expected to go out there and do their job on Sunday? Do you think they're stupid too? They're expected to buy into their coach but then have to hear him say Ponder gives us the best chance to win? That's where you start losing your team. So I'm expected to go out there and bust my #### knowing we're playing the game with a severe handicap? That's gotta be beyond frustrating for the other players.

[Mothman]

I almost always agree with you, Jim, but here is a case when I am complete opposite.
Christian Ponder has been in the league for a long time now, and has not gotten any better than when he first started that game against GB a few years back, in fact, he has regressed further than any other QB I have ever seen. I believe he has the talent, but I put a lot of his regression on the coaches because they should be able to help him. I have never heard anything that suggests that Ponder is a slacker or sloucher, so to me, it means he is working hard at what he does... he just hasn't been able to do it during games. The thing is, Ponder isn't the only one who has regressed in Frazier's tenure. Chris Cook... Josh Robinson... I'm worried about Matt Kalil. He is a shell of what he was last season, and it sickens me to know/think that the coaches we have in place now could be leading to his regression as well.

Fair enough but it's a point of view I can't comprehend so we'll just have to disagree. How or why would coaches teach a quarterback NOT to see an open receiver on a route they've designed and put in the playbook? That makes no sense to me at all. How is coaching responsible for Fusco and Loadholt blowing a double team?

Players are responsible for their own performances. If Ponder just hasn't been able to execute during games, why isn't that on Ponder? If he's not responsible for his own performance who can possibly be responsible for it? The coaches can't throw the ball for him and on missed opportunities like those in the video, he was put in position to succeed. His coaches and teammates did all they could for him on those plays. In the end, he's the one who has to see the receiver and make the throw.

[Mothman]

O This is how I feel too. Every single week we see massive failure in execution on both sides of the ball. There is either no improvement or there is regression. Coaches have to take some serious ownership here. If you have a single player or two not do well you can blame the players but when we have week after week of abysmal play by numerous players coaching has to play a major role in that.

Okay, here's my question to you, PurpleMustReign and anyone else who feels as you do: if the coaches are responsible for the execution problems we see in that video and not the players, what has to occur before the players themselves are responsible for their performances? When do we reach that point?

[Reignman]

The players are always responsible for their performance, but when it happens game after game and it doesn't get corrected, then it's coaching. It's coachings fault for not getting it fixed, and if they can't get it fixed, it's their job to find a replacement. Frazier and co are failing miserably in both those areas.

[Texas Vike]

The players are always responsible for their performance, but when it happens game after game and it doesn't get corrected, then it's coaching. It's coachings fault for not getting it fixed, and if they can't get it fixed, it's their job to find a replacement. Frazier and co are failing miserably in both those areas.

I agree with this. It's a chicken-egg type of situation that simply cannot be separated easily; they're intertwined too tightly. For me, the decisions in personnel made this year have been horrible.

At the end of the day, we have three completely incompetent QBs, so I truly do not think it would matter. On D though, it's time to make some changes. We have to see if some of the younger talent can execute better.

[Mothman]

I agree with this. It's a chicken-egg type of situation that simply cannot be separated easily; they're intertwined too tightly. For me, the decisions in personnel made this year have been horrible.

At the end of the day, we have three completely incompetent QBs, so I truly do not think it would matter.

I don't either and Frazier has tried to do exactly what Reignman suggested above. He's started 3 different QBs and it's fixed nothing, At this point, it's not Frazier's job to find a replacement for that position, it's Spielman's job.

On D though, it's time to make some changes. We have to see if some of the younger talent can execute better.

Other than at LB, most of that younger talent is already getting playing time and none of it has really stood out in a positive way, although there have been some good moments here and there.

It's really easy to say coaches should fix things or replace players but when you're actually the head coach, I suspect that's much harder to do and Frazier's not looking at great replacement options on this roster.

[PurpleKoolaid]

Don't think so Jim. The choice between Ponder (winless, clueless, etc.) and Cassel shouldn't be hard. Cassel has won a game, and in 2 games hasn't looked as bad as Ponder. Yet Fraizer starts Ponder. What kind of sense does that make? Lets at least see who can play next year between these 2 (well 3) turds. I doubt a rookie starts right away, and I doubt the Wilfs let Spielman grab another FA QB.

[Eli]

Why is Christian Ponder the starter?

Discuss.

[Just Me]

Players are responsible for their own performances. If Ponder just hasn't been able to execute during games, why isn't that on Ponder? If he's not responsible for his own performance who can possibly be responsible for it? The coaches can't throw the ball for him and on missed opportunities like those in the video, he was put in position to succeed. His coaches and teammates did all they could for him on those plays. In the end, he's the one who has to see the receiver and make the throw.

Sorry for jumping into a conversation not directed at me but:

I don't think we disagree that Ponder's performance is on him. However, I still say coaching is responsible in that they ostensibly have three (not very good) choices to play QB and they keep returning to the guy who is NOT executing this year. IOW, Cassel has shown he can make those throws and executes better than Ponder. I suppose I can give the coaching staff credit for not putting Freeman in, but I just don't think the coaching staff can have it both ways with respect to Ponder. If he's not executing (and he is not - and he is failing on a consistent basis) then it is on the coaching staff to take him out of the game (especially when you have a backup in the wings that has demonstrated he is more consistent than the QB they are currently playing.) How is that NOT owned by the coach?

[Texas Vike]

I don't either and Frazier has tried to do exactly what Reignman suggested above. He's started 3 different QBs and it's fixed nothing, At this point, it's not Frazier's job to find a replacement for that position, it's Spielman's job.
Other than at LB, most of that younger talent is already getting playing time and none of it has really stood out in a positive way, although there have been some good moments here and there.

It's really easy to say coaches should fix things or replace players but when you're actually the head coach, I suspect that's much harder to do and Frazier's not looking at great replacement options on this roster.

LB is exactly what I was talking about; setting it aside is skirting the issue. We lost Bishop and are playing absolute garbage at LB this year despite investing some picks at the position this year. Let's see what Hodges and Mauti can do out there. Hodges is a former Safety--his strength is size, quickness, and coverage abilities... sounds like exactly what we need.

Frazier doesn't have many options in the secondary. I think our schemes are terrible for our talent. Rhodes has looked like he's thinking too much out there, unable to play instinctually. Kid's got talent and he's been coached out of it... that's how it looks to me.

As for DL: I get the sense that we are now stronger in numbers than in superior talent. Even so, we don't rotate our guys enough. We need to see more of Everson G. and Floyd.

Ultimately, when a team doesn't get wins it falls on the coaches shoulders. Whether that's fair or not is questionable--which gives us room for discussion obviously--but there's not a whole lot that's going right for the Vikes this year. Worst of all for me? They just look weak and directionless this season. I don't see any promise for our short term future.

[The Breeze]

As far as the youth on the D-line goes, I think Floyd and Griffen should be starting and getting in synch with one another for the future. Allen and Williams are more or less finished as far as future concerns.
It might spark a pass rush too....which would help the secondary.

I would love to see the rookie LBs starting...but that is a little different in the case of Henderson. I figure they still have him in their plans going forward... I think Mauti would be visibly better in 5-6 games though.