PurpleMustReign wrote:I just am so sick of seeing our DBs drop sure INTs. That is what bugs the hell out of me. Learn how to catch the damn ball.
Yep that bit us in the #### too. Carolina got the momentum rolling after Sanford dropped the gimme. Their defense intercepts the gimme on our opening drive and our defense drops theirs. But man, how terrible can a defense be on 3rd down? We're so bad on 3rd down, opposing coaches aren't afraid to go for it on 4th.
Texas Vike wrote:And a coach that PLAYED in the secondary. That's what I don't get.
Not only did he play in the secondary, he played on a successful aggressive ball hawking defense, but as a coach his philosophy is a conservative play it safe defense.
"Our playoff loss to the Vikings in '87 was probably the most traumatic experience I had in sports." -- Bill Walsh
PurpleKoolaid wrote:One of the biggest problems is, our front 4 isn't playing good, at all, this year. That's a pretty big concern.
I agree. and this has been the case all year. we have maybe the worst defense in the league and we have all year. people just didn't notice because all the talk was 100% on the qb position. but we saw the same thing today with qb #2 and we'll see it the rest of the season with qb #3.
PurpleKoolaid wrote:One of the biggest problems is, our front 4 isn't playing good, at all, this year. That's a pretty big concern.
I'm not saying the front 4 is playing great, but lets be honest, it's hard to generate any pressure when the secondary or the cover 0 can't cover anyone for more than 2 seconds. There's simply no reason for opposing QB's to hold on to the ball. The just pick our soft zone apart by playing catch with their receivers. Having said that though, Newton was like hanging onto the ball forever on a lot of plays today and we were either whiffing or just couldn't bring him down.
"Our playoff loss to the Vikings in '87 was probably the most traumatic experience I had in sports." -- Bill Walsh
Sad thing is our secondary can actually get worse next year. Cook is our best CB, sad to say, and he's a free agent next year. They could go after a guy like Sam Shields from GB, but it definitely needs to be upgraded after this season. DT is going to be a position of question as well with Griffen moving to RDE on a more permanent basis, and Kevin Williams and Fred Evans becoming free agents. We think this year's defense is bad, next year's could actually be worse depending on how they address these positions in free agency and the draft.
run tackling and pass rush have been horrendous all year, save for about 3 quarters of the steelers game. it's certainly no secret the vikings have gotten long in the tooth up front, but RBs are simply gashing us all over the field. i think the only time newton was put on his back today was when he slid for a short loss. just a dreadful pass rush all game. doesn't matter what the coverage is at this point.
tmscr wrote:run tackling and pass rush have been horrendous all year, save for about 3 quarters of the steelers game. it's certainly no secret the vikings have gotten long in the tooth up front, but RBs are simply gashing us all over the field. i think the only time newton was put on his back today was when he slid for a short loss. just a dreadful pass rush all game. doesn't matter what the coverage is at this point.
I'm on the other side of things, if we could actually cover receivers that buys more time for the pass rush. If a QB is getting rid of the ball in 2.2 seconds that means unless a D-lineman COMPLETELY beats his man he's not getting to the QB in time and if you expect them to constantly have to do that you're asking way too much. That means they have to sell out rushing the passer so if it's a run play or a draw or a screen we're in trouble because no one can cover.
It's a scheme thing, just rushing with your front 4 is out dated and ineffective. The offensive line is 5 guys, so rushing with 4 and expecting them to win at a high percentage is very unlikely. Looking at the #'s more you have 5 lineman and a QB, that's 6 guys out of 11 right there. So that means you have 5 other guys between Wr's, TE's, and RB's vs 7 guys in coverage and yet we still can't COVER anyone. I don't think we have a single starter at CB right now, maybe Rhodes, it's just early on for him. On the flip side, Robinson actually is the WORST starting CB in the league. I bet after todays game his completion % against actually got worse from the 92% it was at LOL!
mondry wrote:
I'm on the other side of things, if we could actually cover receivers that buys more time for the pass rush. If a QB is getting rid of the ball in 2.2 seconds that means unless a D-lineman COMPLETELY beats his man he's not getting to the QB in time and if you expect them to constantly have to do that you're asking way too much. That means they have to sell out rushing the passer so if it's a run play or a draw or a screen we're in trouble because no one can cover.
It's a scheme thing, just rushing with your front 4 is out dated and ineffective. The offensive line is 5 guys, so rushing with 4 and expecting them to win at a high percentage is very unlikely. Looking at the #'s more you have 5 lineman and a QB, that's 6 guys out of 11 right there. So that means you have 5 other guys between Wr's, TE's, and RB's vs 7 guys in coverage and yet we still can't COVER anyone. I don't think we have a single starter at CB right now, maybe Rhodes, it's just early on for him. On the flip side, Robinson actually is the WORST starting CB in the league. I bet after todays game his completion % against actually got worse from the 92% it was at LOL!
I think part of the problem with that is that you have terrible blitzing LB's and when they do blitz they leave the back end in zone coverage. So as long as the QB and WR can identify the blitz, so when the LB doesn't get there you have an open spot in the zone that can easily be exploited because the majority of the time the CB's are playing 5-10 yards off. I think part of it is scheme, which includes not utilizing the strength of the talent that you have, i.e. press coverage with Rhodes and Cook, a stubborness to divert from what isn't working and a lack of talent at certain positions. What it really comes down to is the Vikings have no idea how to mask the weaknesses in the defense and they continue to get exploited.
This is the result of not getting active enough in FA. Defense requires EXP and FA is where you go get it. We NEVER make good moves in FA. We usually get leftovers that nobody else wants
Reignman wrote:I'm not saying the front 4 is playing great, but lets be honest, it's hard to generate any pressure when the secondary or the cover 0 can't cover anyone for more than 2 seconds. There's simply no reason for opposing QB's to hold on to the ball. The just pick our soft zone apart by playing catch with their receivers. Having said that though, Newton was like hanging onto the ball forever on a lot of plays today and we were either whiffing or just couldn't bring him down.
No, that's exactly what the cover-2 is. The cover-2 relies on pressure from up front in order to work. The players up front know what they're getting into when they play for this team, and they are flat-out underperforming this season. The secondary shouldn't be as porous as they have been to this point, but it all starts up front.
"The bravest are surely those who have the clearest vision of what is before them, glory and danger alike, and yet notwithstanding, go out to meet it." ~Thucydides
thatguy wrote:
No, that's exactly what the cover-2 is. The cover-2 relies on pressure from up front in order to work. The players up front know what they're getting into when they play for this team, and they are flat-out underperforming this season. The secondary shouldn't be as porous as they have been to this point, but it all starts up front.
I don't care what the defensive philosophy is or how good your front 4 is, if your secondary can't cover anyone for more than 2 seconds, front 4 pressure is going to be non existent or a non factor. The '85 Bears front 7 would look mediocre with our secondary.
Opposing teams have our cover-0 figured out. Receivers know all they have to do is quickly sit down somewhere in our soft zone and wait for the QB to throw them the ball. In fact our zone is so open and soft when receivers catch the ball they often have time to make a move before a defender is on em.
"Our playoff loss to the Vikings in '87 was probably the most traumatic experience I had in sports." -- Bill Walsh
