Lack of Confidence in Ponder final straw for Percy Harvin

[DanAS]

I would never condone Harvin's attitude simply because I don't think much of Ponder's skills. Harvin was still getting paid seven figures to act like a man and support his team regardless of whether his QB belongs in Canton. Shame on Percy for the attitude he displayed in Minny. But the fact remains that Ponder is not exactly an asset that helps sell the Vikes to potential free agent receivers. In my view, it is Ponder, and not the current crop of WRs, who does the most to remove us from Super Bowl contention.

The biggest silver lining in this deal is that due to the dearth of quality WRs, we might see the end of the Ponder era after next season and, in the meantime, grab some more young talent. Count me as someone who would NOT like to see the Vikes reach for 2nd round talent in the first round simply because those guys might happen to play wide receiver. With this trade, we are officially in the rebuilding mode, and let us rebuild by taking the best talent available at ANY of the positions of need: the DT position, the LB position, the guard position -- and if we don't sign Loadholt, perhaps the RT position. We can always use more quality cover guys as well, for Winfield isn't getting any younger. So even though my grandmother can probably compete for the starting WR position (and she's dead), I am not only interested in restocking that position because I don't think we can win the Super Bowl anyway as long as Ponder is around, unless we upgrade our D to among the best ever.

One of the facts that isn't getting much attention is that, reportedly, the Vikes lost out on Boldin because they were only willing to give up a seventh rounder for him. Boldin isn't young, but he's still damned good. We could have had him for a fifth rounder. So why didn't we give one up? Perhaps our brain trust realizes that we aren't exactly one WR away from title contention and we'd rather rebuild with young talent. And again, with Ponder at the helm, I can't say that's a crazy decision. (By the way, imagine what the Vikes would get if we tried to trade Ponder. A 5th? A 4th? A 3rd? No way we'd get a first round pick. I doubt we'd even get a second round pick. And personally, I wouldn't give up a third rounder for him. As desperate as teams are for quality QBs, that's how little of an upside this "game manager" has.)

The real job, then, is to upgrade at QB. Great QBs make decent WRs look good. Sadly, we have neither a great QB nor decent WRs at the moment, but we have a ton of talent at the other positions, and that talent should only get better with the acquisition of an extra #1 and a #3 in the next two years. It could be worse in Vikings land. We're plugging more and more holes. And that is a formula for long run success. The only thing is, the holes we do have are getting more and more gaping. And that is a formula for short term mediocrity.

[Just Me]

Don't count on it.

IDK "sophmore slumps" are not uncommon. Wether or not it plays out that way remains to be seen, but I'd taken even odds on whether or not Wilson's performance degrades (at least slightly) next season.

[Mothman]

I understand there's a lot of rationalization going on in the wake of this trade, and therefore twisting perspectives on what Percy Harvin actually did on the field, but this is the 2nd person who is actually trying to give Christian Ponder credit for Percy Harvin's production this season. This is as ludicrous as saying I don't know why they gave Adrian the MVP, after all Ponder's the guy who handed him the ball all those times.

I don't think he was trying to give Ponder credit for Harvin's production. He was just pointing out (rightly so) that Harvin was very productive with Ponder throwing the ball to him. In other words, Harvin's production wasn't exactly suffering because of his QB's performance.

[Cliff]

Meh ... if this is Harvin's main reason then good riddance. How unprofessional.

I guess I'll just have to spend my off season focusing on Ponder's last game of the season WITHOUT Harvin against a team fighting for home field advantage for the playoffs (16/28 for 234 yards and 3TDs) and the upcoming draft.

At least we can all stop the speculation now

[Cliff]

I don't think he was trying to give Ponder credit for Harvin's production. He was just pointing out (rightly so) that Harvin was very productive with Ponder throwing the ball to him. In other words, Harvin's production wasn't exactly suffering because of his QB's performance.

The short passing game is what Harvin excels at. If he thinks the Seahawks plan on lining him out wide and having him run deep routes all game he's insane. They're going to continue to feed him the ball around the LoS because it's low risk and high reward with a player like Harvin.

[mansquatch]

That is exactly the right Cliff. They won their last 4 games without PH even in uniform, including some huge wins against the Texans and the Packers. People are emotional and doing knee jerk freak outs, but they are forgetting that this team won in December, the most important time of the year to win, without PH. I'm dissapointed they lost such a dynamic player, but the media are treating the him like he was the sole reason this team was 10-6 last year and that is just not the case. He missed 7 games. Yes he was our best WR and we lack WR talent, that is what it is, but we lacked WR talent when we won those 4 games also...

The onus is now definitely on the front office to upgrade at WR. There is no way they do not expend draft picks towards this end. The key is player eval and getting the right guys in here. I wouldn't be suprised if we make play on Greg Jennings and then draft a big body guy.

As far as the Ponder thing. Veteren guys in their 30s are going to want to play for a SF, NE, GB, DEN, or NO. They all know an elite QB gives them the best shot at a ring. That isn't going to change until Ponder has an elite season. So if guys do not want to come here because of that, what exactly are the Vikes going to do about it? Also it is worth noting that Anquan Boldin went to Baltimore as FA before Flacco emerged because they were a contender. If the Vikes can contend again this year, I suspect the "Ponder thing" will quickly be forgotten.

[dead_poet]

That is exactly the right Cliff. They won their last 4 games without PH even in uniform, including some huge wins against the Texans and the Packers. People are emotional and doing knee jerk freak outs, but they are forgetting that this team won in December, the most important time of the year to win, without PH.

As Siefert pointed out, it required a record-setting performance by AD, which cannot be counted on to replicate.

[sdranger]

He's throwing Ponder under the bus, so what, IMO it was the coaching staff and FO. To bad cause I don't think either are that bad. But all in all it was a win win as far as a trade goes. It might be cold in MN but man I couldn't handle that rain everyday of the year. Good luck on your migraines.

[Cliff]

As Siefert pointed out, it required a record-setting performance by AD, which cannot be counted on to replicate.

Please don't mistake my statements for saying that the team is better without Percy. Especially in it's current state (before any new players come in from the draft and whatever the Vikings might do in free agency) ... I'm just saying all isn't hopeless in Vikings land. Two first round picks ... Peterson ... Ponder ended the season on a high note (as did Wright), the defense took some big steps forward last season.

The team didn't collapse without Harvin and they got some pretty good compensation for him. They're in better shape going into next season than they were at the end of last season and they came through that just fine.

[losperros]

That is exactly the right Cliff. They won their last 4 games without PH even in uniform, including some huge wins against the Texans and the Packers. People are emotional and doing knee jerk freak outs, but they are forgetting that this team won in December, the most important time of the year to win, without PH.

Oh, talk about knee jerk reactions, it gets even worse. Some people even believe the Vikings were better without Harvin in those last four games, rather than realizing the blatantly obvious fact that Harvin would have added yet another weapon to last December's performance by the team. Not only that, a healthy Harvin and Ponder was badly needed at Lambeau during the playoff game.

[PurpleKoolaid]

As terrible/inconsistent/whatever Ponder is, Percy was on pace for the best season of his career with Ponder throwing to him. So, ya.

Why not start blaming Harvin and stop blaming Ponder for everything. As great as he is and as fun as he was to watch the guy clearly had attitude problem and wanted way too much money. It was time to move on and we got as much for him as we did for Moss when McCombs/Tice jettisoned him.

Harvin couldn't even get a long with Leslie Frazier, can't wait to see what happens with Pete Carroll.

And this isn't me turning on a former player, as so many fans loved to do, I'm just being objective here.

Maybe because PH is, and will continue to be be one of the best WR in the entire NFL, and Ponder will continue to be a below average QB, with single coverge on his WR 90% of the time. But then its the WRs fault. Or the fields fault. Or the OC's faults, etc.

[Cliff]

Oh, talk about knee jerk reactions, it gets even worse. Some people even believe the Vikings were better without Harvin in those last four games, rather than realizing the blatantly obvious fact that Harvin would have added yet another weapon to last December's performance by the team. Not only that, a healthy Harvin and Ponder was badly needed at Lambeau during the playoff game.

The team in it's current state is definitely not as good without Percy. Last years team wasn't better for Percy being injured, that's for sure.

However, if they pick up Wallace and spend their 2 first rounders wisely ... I could see that team being better than the 2012 team with Harvin on it. Especially considering Harvin's attitude issues.

[PurpleKoolaid]

That is exactly the right Cliff. They won their last 4 games without PH even in uniform, including some huge wins against the Texans and the Packers. People are emotional and doing knee jerk freak outs, but they are forgetting that this team won in December, the most important time of the year to win, without PH. I'm dissapointed they lost such a dynamic player, but the media are treating the him like he was the sole reason this team was 10-6 last year and that is just not the case. He missed 7 games. Yes he was our best WR and we lack WR talent, that is what it is, but we lacked WR talent when we won those 4 games also...

The onus is now definitely on the front office to upgrade at WR. There is no way they do not expend draft picks towards this end. The key is player eval and getting the right guys in here. I wouldn't be suprised if we make play on Greg Jennings and then draft a big body guy.

As far as the Ponder thing. Veteren guys in their 30s are going to want to play for a SF, NE, GB, DEN, or NO. They all know an elite QB gives them the best shot at a ring. That isn't going to change until Ponder has an elite season. So if guys do not want to come here because of that, what exactly are the Vikes going to do about it? Also it is worth noting that Anquan Boldin went to Baltimore as FA before Flacco emerged because they were a contender. If the Vikes can contend again this year, I suspect the "Ponder thing" will quickly be forgotten.

What does the lack of PH, have to do with Ponder have good games ( as Ive said before 200 yards aernt usually consideed great games, except here on this board for some reason)? AD happened to have some outstanding games. When the Packers figered how to stop him we had nothing, Having the uisual no back up plan for QB didnt help matters. Sure wish the vikes would finally put some tought into this position.

[Cliff]

And that exposes the type of teammate Percy was. As much as he's been called "selfish" for everything's that's gone down, his concern wasn't his own numbers, which most football fans attack the receivers for, his concern was that Ponder wasn't good at being a QB period. I'm pretty sure his stats were like top 3 in the major categories before he was put on IR, so it wouldn't make sense that he was referring to his own production. And Percy's also smart enough to know that 500 yards receiving when the ball is thrown to you in the endzone is completely different from a ball thrown to you at the line of scrimmage that you get pounded by 5 defenders as you run for 50 yards to that endzone. And because of that Percy would've been just as "very productive" if Ponder or you were throwing him that ball 2 yards behind the LOS.

So let me get this straight. Harvin demanded to be traded, a move that obviously makes the TEAM worse, because he's so worried about how well the team does?

He just had to be traded because he realizes the team he was on is going the complete wrong way? The team that improved from 3-13 to 10-6 in one season?

I don't hold any hostile feelings against Harvin for doing what he thought best for his career but let's be clear ... he's worried about HIS career and not the team.

[Mothman]

And that exposes the type of teammate Percy was. As much as he's been called "selfish" for everything's that's gone down, his concern wasn't his own numbers, which most football fans attack the receivers for, his concern was that Ponder wasn't good at being a QB period.

Supposedly... but IF that's true, I agree that it reveals what kind of teammate Harvin was and frankly, it doesn't reflect well on him.