Vikings Message Board.Com

My two cents ! NO AND AGAIN NO This is exactly what we have all been saying the Vikings have to quit doing , we have been trying to buy a QB or should I say rent a QB for the better part of two decades now . The only way to get a ten yera starter is to pick a guy and grow with him then he will pay dividends down the road . How long did it take Manning " Peyton" to get his SB ring ? would anyone say it wasnt worth the wait ? And before the flamethrowers start up I am NOT saying Ponder is gunna be a Manning or Brady . I just dont want to go back to the quick fix plan to solve the QB issue .

Lash Man wrote:My two cents ! NO AND AGAIN NO This is exactly what we have all been saying the Vikings have to quit doing , we have been trying to buy a QB or should I say rent a QB for the better part of two decades now . The only way to get a ten yera starter is to pick a guy and grow with him then he will pay dividends down the road . How long did it take Manning " Peyton" to get his SB ring ? would anyone say it wasnt worth the wait ? And before the flamethrowers start up I am NOT saying Ponder is gunna be a Manning or Brady . I just dont want to go back to the quick fix plan to solve the QB issue .

You mean to tell me Ponder is not the next Brady, Mannings? Man, I had all my eggs in one basket and someone has kicked it down the hill. I thought that Ponder was going to be the next superstar QB. Ponder doesnt have to throw for 4,000 yds to win. He has proved that. And so has the team. I like the team concept of winning. For all the greatness of Manning and Brady, how many SB wins do they have between them? over how many years? It is not THAT impressive and yes, they are really good QB's but exactly how many factors come into play in order for a team to produce a win on Sunday? millions? I think that the Vikes have a good core of players on both sides of the ball and change at QB most likely is not a good idea. tweak a little somewhere else this time.

CbusVikesFan wrote: You mean to tell me Ponder is not the next Brady, Mannings? Man, I had all my eggs in one basket and someone has kicked it down the hill. I thought that Ponder was going to be the next superstar QB. Ponder doesnt have to throw for 4,000 yds to win. He has proved that. And so has the team. I like the team concept of winning. For all the greatness of Manning and Brady, how many SB wins do they have between them? over how many years? It is not THAT impressive and yes, they are really good QB's but exactly how many factors come into play in order for a team to produce a win on Sunday? millions? I think that the Vikes have a good core of players on both sides of the ball and change at QB most likely is not a good idea. tweak a little somewhere else this time.

I am a Buckeye State resident as well ! Love the Bucks and the Vikes !

CbusVikesFan wrote: You mean to tell me Ponder is not the next Brady, Mannings? Man, I had all my eggs in one basket and someone has kicked it down the hill. I thought that Ponder was going to be the next superstar QB. Ponder doesnt have to throw for 4,000 yds to win. He has proved that. And so has the team. I like the team concept of winning. For all the greatness of Manning and Brady, how many SB wins do they have between them? over how many years? It is not THAT impressive and yes, they are really good QB's but exactly how many factors come into play in order for a team to produce a win on Sunday? millions?

Many...

... but I have to say, I think what Brady has done is extremely impressive. He was the winning QB in the Super Bowl 3 times in 4 years and he has started in 5 Super Bowls over an 11 year span. I think Elway is the only other QB who has started in 5 Super Bowls.

However, you're right that many factors beyond QBb play come into play when determining a Super Bowl winner so I agree with this:

I think that the Vikes have a good core of players on both sides of the ball and change at QB most likely is not a good idea. tweak a little somewhere else this time.

Purplemania wrote:I think you guys are getting the wrong impression of Rivers. He is not a stop-gap QB. He is a QB who is in the middle of his prime years. He's only 31. He'll have at least 4 more years of high productive season left, the same 4 year window before AD starts breaking down. During those 4 years, we can also be grooming a cheap talented QB in one of the later rounds of a draft. Yes Rivers has not played well, but quick, name his receivers other than Malcolm Floyd? Floyd isn't even that good too. I don't mind rolling with Ponder for next year, but if we can bring in Rivers for a reasonable price, hell yeah I would do it. Ponder at his max potential will never be as good as Rivers. That sounds too concrete to say, but it is my opinion based on his starts thus far.

The folks who say Rivers isn't mobile and would get killed behind our line should consider pocket awareness. The best QB's in the today's game do not use their mobility to avoid pressure (except maybe Rodgers) but rather their awareness. There is a reason Manning and Brady never lead the leagues in the sacked category, and it ain't cause their Oline is great.

It's a crazy idea that will never happen, I know. But don't degrade Rivers as an over the hill guy. He is still a top 10 QB. Would love to have him and AD behind this team.

So your excuse for Rivers is that he has no one to throw to? Have you seen our WR's? Strange how you can write ponder off so easily when he also has no one to throw to.

That pocket awareness sure helped him a lot. He got sacked 49 times, second most in the entire NFL.

No.

Lash Man wrote: I am a Buckeye State resident as well ! Love the Bucks and the Vikes !

YEP YEP!!!! There are a bunch of us Buck/Vikes fans here in Ohio.

Demi wrote: 3600 yards 26 TD 15 INT is his game now. I'll take that. Much less getting ANYTHING back. That team has been stripped on offense. Gates isn't anything near what he used to be, he lost his best receiver, their backs are garbage.

Would I give up much for him? Maybe a mid round. But I'd take him over Ponder in a second. Why would the Chargers want anything to do with Ponder? He isn't their 3 year pipe dream.

Ditto. Quarterbacks usually peak in their early 30's. They're not wide receivers. They rely on their brains and experience to make quick, good decisions.

The Vikings are working on developing Christian Ponder and adding receivers around him while Adrian Peterson isn't getting any younger. Running backs peak at about 27. Very few are still the same player at 32 that they are at 27, but with quarterbacks, the opposite thing happens: they usually get a lot better.

I think if the Vikings were to keep Jerome Simpson around, too, he'd work a lot better with Phil Rivers. Rivers may have put up better numbers in the old days, but that San Diego defense was ALL about one player: LaDainian Tomlinson. Adrian Peterson more than fills that position. Phil Rivers is essentially a game manager...he's never been an Elway "John Wayne win the game himself" type. When you take away all his weapons, he's not going to put up good numbers. If you put him with Harvin, Peterson, and Kyle Rudolph, however, good things may happen.

That said, I'd only be okay with a Ponder + second round pick for Rivers at this point. I think that's as good as San Diego could do. Rivers would be a good fit in this offense and bring a lot of leadership and passion. I like Ponder and think he's got some of what it takes to be a good quarterback in the league, but he's got a lot to work on and I don't think Adrian Peterson has that kind of time. I still consider Christian Ponder to be the second coming of Rich Gannon. I think he'll be a much better quarterback (provided he stops taking a nasty beatdown every year) at 29 than he was at 24. However, Adrian Peterson will be in his mid-30's when that happens. If Ponder stays healthy, though, he'll stick around the league for awhile, and someday, someone will look back on his career and say "holy crap, I never thought he was all that good, but apparently he was". Which is what everyone said about Gannon. But Rivers, right now, would make the team a contender to go deep in the playoffs. The team around him might be good enough to get to that level.

As far as I'm concerned, the Vikings are a team that really needs a Super Bowl. The best player on the team is a running back right at his prime. Their defense has a mix of very promising young players and a lot of aging stars. Their quarterback is a good guy who seems like he'll be a good quarterback but isn't there yet. He was drafted high because they felt he was NFL ready, smart, and ready to take them to the next level. I think he still needs a couple years. That running back may not have that. Nor will all those key players on defense.

I don't know why SD would trade Rivers for Ponder. No dis to Ponder, but if they wanted a young QB they would draft one and keep Rivers there until the new guy is ready.

You'd basically be asking SD to trade their current QB situation for ours plus a draft pick....doesn't add up to me.

1) Anyone who posted Rivers is too old and 'stop-gap' is just plain wrong. Moving on...

2) To those who posted AP window is now and closing are...right on. Rivers gives opposing teams something to think about besides AP. How many wins could be added just because of that fact alone?

3) Harvin, Simpson, Randolph, AP, and whatever talent added via draft and FA, would be a huge upgrade for Rivers. He would not only hold is current ranking of top 10 QB in the league but push the top 5 spot AGAIN.

4) Now for those of you who posted the money/cap concern...well this isa legit concern. Not sure of the numbers, but if it TRULY prevented the Vikes from signing other talent, then Rivers might not offset.

Frazier has already made the call. Ponder is the guy for 2013. They're not trading for anybody to play QB. I wouldn't want Rivers anyway.

From what I've seen, confidence is the big issue with Ponder. In the middle of the season when he was horrible, he seemed tentative to a ridiculous degree. Like he was just scared to throw the ball. And more scared to stand in the pocket.

When he played well late in the year (the last game at least) he stood in there and delivered the ball with some authority. What's so frustrating is he shows some real flashes of being able to do this but has also at times looked like he'd rather be selling shoes. Maybe this firm commitment from Frazier that he's the guy will help that confidence.

I so wish he could have played in the playoff game. How he played in that game would have gone a long way to determining whether or not that Green Bay game to end the regular season was a fluke or if that is really the player he is becoming.

Had he played and played well, I think we'd feel pretty good going into this season. Had he played and stunk it up, I think they would seriously be considering other options. But of course he didn't play and that one injury and one missed game now leaves us with still a lot of questions at the most important position on the team.

rugbyrugger23 wrote:
4) Now for those of you who posted the money/cap concern...well this isa legit concern. Not sure of the numbers, but if it TRULY prevented the Vikes from signing other talent, then Rivers might not offset.

Rivers Cap hits for the next 3 seasons are : 17.11, 15 and 15.75 M...

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/san-diego-ch ... ip-rivers/

rugbyrugger23 wrote:1) Anyone who posted Rivers is too old and 'stop-gap' is just plain wrong. Moving on...

He's already showing signs of decline, decreased arm velocity, and prone to turnovers 47 in 32 games. At his current pace I don't see him being effective for more than 4-5 years. Of course, he could always turn it around but his recent trends don't support that theory. His arm and job were both in question last season.

2) Rivers gives opposing teams something to think about besides AP. How many wins could be added just because of that fact alone?

With the way that Rivers played this year? Few, if any. He wasn't dramatically better than Ponder. In the last two seasons Ponder has improved whereas Rivers has regressed. I'd take a chance on the younger, improving guy.

3) Harvin, Simpson, Randolph, AP, and whatever talent added via draft and FA, would be a huge upgrade for Rivers. He would not only hold is current ranking of top 10 QB in the league but push the top 5 spot AGAIN.

Top 10 QB in the league? How do you figure? His completion percentage was 2% higher than Ponder's. 21st in the league in yards/game. T-9 in TDs. #17 in QBR. He was #10 in the league in most INTs last season. Maybe that's what you meant. #2 in sacks received.

Randolph? http://bit.ly/YJzYgb

Mothman wrote: Cassel is turnover-prone (21 INTs, 9 lost fumbles in the last 2 seasons) but take a look at how turnover-prone Rivers has been in the last two seasons: in 2011 and 2012 combined, he threw 35 interceptions and lost 12 fumbles. He's played poorly the last two years and he's unlikely to be happy as a backup. He can carve defenses up when he's hot but I think he's far too immobile and mistake-prone for the Vikings to bail on developing Ponder and throw their eggs in his basket.

Although true, Rivers has been expected to single handedly carry the offense. Particularly last season, where no running game or legitimate deep threat (following the loss of Vincent Jackson) became all too apparent and his protection as inconsistent to say the least. Now I'm not making excuses for him but look how formidable he was when a decent supporting cast was in place. Tomlinson, a productive Gates and a disruptive Merriman on the defensive side spring to mind when reminiscing about the shock play-off victory over Manning and co, in the RCA dome.

With the league's greatest RB in place and a cohesive O-Line, I think providing a few upgrades at Receiver could lead to him thriving in our system. Though I wouldn't want to throw 'all of my eggs into one basket'. Vets are always risk, a la McNabb/Favre (2nd Season).

GBFavreFan wrote:This post is either a year too late or a year too early. The Vikings are sticking with Ponder for 2013, sealed in stone. If they go for any experienced backup, its not going to be anyone of any value like Phillip Rivers. This post is as relevant as asking if we should trade for Tom Brady.

I'd do anything for Brady. He'd make our awful WR corps look like gods