Vikings Message Board.Com

Demi wrote:Hate hearing that "White Sox will lose division, they rely too much on the home run"

What?! The game is about scoring, and stopping the opposing team from scoring. They're #1 in the division for a reason, they can hit home runs. When did this "small ball" become "the right way to play the game"?

I hate small ball too. I subscribe to the Earl Weaver way of winning. Pitching, defense, and the 3 run homer. There's a time and a place for small ball, but they are very rare occurances; most of the time you are statistically better off waiting for your pitch and swinging away rather than either bunting or purposefully weakly hitting to advance a runner. Its simple math, you only have 3 outs and four bases to advance. You can't advance a leadoff single home by moving him one base at a time- he'll get stranded at 3rd by the end of the inning.

I don't even think its the Twins players, its the team philosophy. Heck, look at a guy like David Ortiz who didn't become a monster until he escaped small ball and went to Boston where they let him do what he does best- walk and hit home runs. Its no coincidence that his stats in both categories improved immensely when he was let go.

I think its very funny that Ozzie Guillen idolizes the Twins ways and wants to build his team that way. But the times he's had good teams was from power from guys like Jermaine Dye, Carlos Quentin, Nick Swisher, and Jim Thome. Too bad none of those guys are .300 hitters .

wang_chi7 wrote: I hate small ball too. I subscribe to the Earl Weaver way of winning. Pitching, defense, and the 3 run homer. There's a time and a place for small ball, but they are very rare occurances; most of the time you are statistically better off waiting for your pitch and swinging away rather than either bunting or purposefully weakly hitting to advance a runner. Its simple math, you only have 3 outs and four bases to advance. You can't advance a leadoff single home by moving him one base at a time- he'll get stranded at 3rd by the end of the inning.

I don't even think its the Twins players, its the team philosophy. Heck, look at a guy like David Ortiz who didn't become a monster until he escaped small ball and went to Boston where they let him do what he does best- walk and hit home runs. Its no coincidence that his stats in both categories improved immensely when he was let go.

I think its very funny that Ozzie Guillen idolizes the Twins ways and wants to build his team that way. But the times he's had good teams was from power from guys like Jermaine Dye, Carlos Quentin, Nick Swisher, and Jim Thome. Too bad none of those guys are .300 hitters .

Small ball works if your bullpen can hold a lead. I do think the Twins need a power hitter, a proven one. I was really hoping for Adrian Beltre to come to the Twins.
The one thing that I don't understand is for so long this season, Punto, Gomez, Span, and Casilla would all bunt for hits, and sacrifices. Now the games I watch, they almost never square around. I know the infield is playing in probably, but the speed they all have they would still be able to beat out the throws most of the time.
The Twins as a team are not doing what got them this far. And it's a shame, because it is fun to watch them play. They all play for the love of the game. They aren't bunting, and their bullpen STINKS lately, even Nathan.

All I can say about the Twins after the past two and a half weeks is...

Thank God it's football season!!



Dawn

PurpleMustReign wrote:
Small ball works if your bullpen can hold a lead. I do think the Twins need a power hitter, a proven one. I was really hoping for Adrian Beltre to come to the Twins.
The one thing that I don't understand is for so long this season, Punto, Gomez, Span, and Casilla would all bunt for hits, and sacrifices. Now the games I watch, they almost never square around. I know the infield is playing in probably, but the speed they all have they would still be able to beat out the throws most of the time.
The Twins as a team are not doing what got them this far. And it's a shame, because it is fun to watch them play. They all play for the love of the game. They aren't bunting, and their bullpen STINKS lately, even Nathan.

Their bullpen is killing them, and is the biggest reason for their fall. But if they put runs on the board, the bullpen would have a much easier job.

What was once their strength (the pen) is now definitely the team's Achilles heal. If you would have told me before the season that the rotation would do as well as its done, I would have said the Twins would easily win the division by 5-8 games; but I also expected a strong bullpen once again.

wang_chi7 wrote:

What was once their strength (the pen) is now definitely the team's Achilles heal. If you would have told me before the season that the rotation would do as well as its done, I would have said the Twins would easily win the division by 5-8 games; but I also expected a strong bullpen once again.

They're scoring 5 runs per game. Ther offense is fine, aside from the lack of power. They have actually outscored the White Sox. The Sox have twice as many HRs, but the Twins have more runs.

They have the worst bullpen in the majors ERA-wise on the road. Had they been able to keep one of the leads given to them on their road trip, they'd be in much better shape. What I have noticed is they are all leaving pitches up, which is a sign of fatigue. They may need to try one of their call-ups to see what they can do. They can't be any worse than what they have going on now.

PurpleMustReign wrote:
They're scoring 5 runs per game. Ther offense is fine, aside from the lack of power. They have actually outscored the White Sox. The Sox have twice as many HRs, but the Twins have more runs.

I stand corrected. Thanks for the info, I hadn't compared the two teams' runs scored for the season. I was assuming they weren't scoring runs from the games I've watched and because they haven't scored runs for years.

They are now tied for first ! Hopefully they can hit a winning streak during these last 15 or so games because there isn't room for both central division teams in the playoffs this year.

Demi wrote:What?! The game is about scoring, and stopping the opposing team from scoring. They're #1 in the division for a reason, they can hit home runs. When did this "small ball" become "the right way to play the game"?

If the game is about scoring, then the Twins should be in first place. After 148 games they've scored 766 runs, while the Sox have scored 732 in 146 games. The Twins have 1437 hits, the Sox 1323. The Twins have 277 doubles, the Sox 267. The Twins have 42 triples, the Sox 13. Okay, so the Sox have 210 HR to the Twins 104, but the Twins have more RBIs... 730 to 712. And their BA and OBP is higher.

Yes, the Sox hit more home runs and their SLG and OPS are higher, but scoring runs is the name of the game. Right?



Dawn

DeeEss57 wrote: If the game is about scoring, then the Twins should be in first place. After 148 games they've scored 766 runs, while the Sox have scored 732 in 146 games. The Twins have 1437 hits, the Sox 1323. The Twins have 277 doubles, the Sox 267. The Twins have 42 triples, the Sox 13. Okay, so the Sox have 210 HR to the Twins 104, but the Twins have more RBIs... 730 to 712. And their BA and OBP is higher.

Yes, the Sox hit more home runs and their SLG and OPS are higher, but scoring runs is the name of the game. Right?





Dawn

What's odd, is the reason for the slump lately is the bullpen, which used to be a strength for the Twins.

PurpleMustReign wrote:What's odd, is the reason for the slump lately is the bullpen, which used to be a strength for the Twins.

Someone I know posited that Gardy has worn out the bullpen. But here's the stats:

Bonser - 109.1 IP 42 G = 2.6 IP/G
Guerrier - 70.2 IP 70 G = 1.0 IP/G
Nathan - 61 IP 61 G = 1.0 IP/G
Crain - 58.1 IP 62 G = .93 IP/G
Guardado - 53.2 IP 61 G = .87 IP/G
Reyes - 42 IP 70 G = .60 IP/G

Comparing to other pitchers with similar G played, IP is about average. So I don't think they're worn out. I just can't explain what's happened to them. It looks like Nathan is back in form, but I cringe everytime Gardy brings Guerrier or Boonser into the game.


Dawn

DeeEss57 wrote: Someone I know posited that Gardy has worn out the bullpen. But here's the stats:

Bonser - 109.1 IP 42 G = 2.6 IP/G
Guerrier - 70.2 IP 70 G = 1.0 IP/G
Nathan - 61 IP 61 G = 1.0 IP/G
Crain - 58.1 IP 62 G = .93 IP/G
Guardado - 53.2 IP 61 G = .87 IP/G
Reyes - 42 IP 70 G = .60 IP/G

Comparing to other pitchers with similar G played, IP is about average. So I don't think they're worn out. I just can't explain what's happened to them. It looks like Nathan is back in form, but I cringe everytime Gardy brings Guerrier or Boonser into the game.


Dawn

Guerrier is worn out. And hs is definitely lacking confidence. It seems like the starters are only going 6-7 innings lately in a good game. I don't know. It seems like the bullpen has been overused lately.

Unbelievable. Is there any other way the Twins can lose? Unreal.

Ah, Minnesota franchises are adept at stealing defeat from the jaws of victory.
And then they get to play the Rays 4 times, and the White Sox get the Royals.

wang_chi7 wrote: No kidding; it will be a breath of fresh air to not see the Yankees in the playoffs. If they keep trying to do things the way they are, they could see a long dry spell. I'm loving that their ignoring the farm system is screwing them finally.

I'm also very happy that Tampa is almost definitely going to win the division. I love seeing a young team like that finally get things rolling their way.

And I'm even more happy the Cubs are the best team in baseball this year. Now they just have to keep it going in October. I'm tired of the curse.

Spoken as a TRUE CUBS FAN. I also have followed the CUBS forever and it is about time they get back to where they belong. As the song goes GO CUBS GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So, does anyone think we'll sweep the Sox at the Dome??? We need to. Who is pitching tonight?????/

purple guy wrote:So, does anyone think we'll sweep the Sox at the Dome??? We need to. Who is pitching tonight?????/

Pretty sure it's Baker.

And here I was hoping at least one of these games it'd be Liriano.