Vikings Message Board.Com

80 PurplePride 84 wrote:Actually, Moore, Leftwich and Campbell are very good backups. I'd even considered Gradkowski one. A backup is just that a backup. We might have a chance in the Packer game with any of them instead of Webb. I'd at Leinart, Rexy or Anderson though.

You want a guy who gives you a chance to win for a game or 3 if your starter goes down.

I know what you mean but my personal take has always been that the backup should be a guy who gives the team a chance to win as many games as necessary if the starter goes down.

I've never been a Campbell fan but if the Vikes had to settle for one of the players on that list, Moore and Gradkowski would interest me most.

Saint33, if Fitzpatrick gets released, I think he'd be a better backup option than most of the players we've been talking about.

regarding Cambell, BEWARE anyone who can't make the cut on the Bears. THey keep a lot of garbage players so if you fail there, you can fail anywhere....Vikes have had enough Bears trash......

I think Ponder has proven that he has the ability but unfortunately, the inconsistent spells have to stop. Of course, he's only had a full year of starting so hopefully the kinks will eventually be worked out because I can't see the Vikes constantly being able to overcome such poor play and depending on dramatic, last gasp runs come season's end.

I'd be all for the addition of Alex Smith, a proven starter who's decision making has become impeccable in recent years and was only benched due to injury coupling with the freak that is CK7 waiting to be unleashed. The only problem then is that I don't believe he'll settle for being an understudy after proving his worth, possibly his best years lie ahead too.

I've seen enough from Christian to be patient and give him a chance, with a phenomenal running game, he won't get us beaten. Though of course, a dependable veteran back up would we wise, to be called on in the worst case scenario and also to progress Ponder's game.

dead_poet wrote:Christian Ponder - QB - Vikings

The Minneapolis Star-Tribune stresses the Vikings will not be looking for a quarterback to compete with Christian Ponder this offseason.

Minnesota will be looking to upgrade on Joe Webb as the team's No. 2 to Ponder, though, and the Tribune points to veteran backups like Matt Moore, Derek Anderson, David Carr, Jason Campbell, and others. The belief is that Webb could be pushed down the depth chart to No. 3, and the Vikings could use him all over the field as an "athlete." One thing seems certain, GM Rick Spielman will be scouring the market.
Source: Minneapolis Star-Tribune
http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikin ... 58191.html

I think this is a problem. If we are banking on Ponder, then he's it for the next 1-2 years, at least. His upside would be someone like a Matt Ryan or Joe Flacco. And that's an if. The 49rs grabbed a 2nd QB and look where they are at. The Seahawks grabbed Wilson after signing Flynn. The Skins drafted 2 QB's. Meanwhile, a team like the Rams stuck with Bradford and fail another season. QB's don't grow on trees an when you bank on one guy like this on hope, that's a good recipe for failure.

We did not make it to 10-6 because of our passing game. If we don't look and grab another one this draft, or the next draft, at the very least, we are in all likelihood looking at being desperate for the next 5 seasons.

i never thought i would say this, but if ponder played in our playoff game we would have had a decent shot at beating green bay. yes, he was inconsistent for most of the year, but in that final regular season game he finally really showed the ability to be an nfl qb. granted, that was only one game, but it was a must win and he came up with some major throws. also of note: i believe his two deepest throws came to jarius wright, who sat out most of the season. what if we can get this kid some receivers for next year? i certainly wasn't all that impressed with him overall, but lets face it, he had nobody to throw the ball to after harvin went down. we need a more balanced receiving core, a big physical guy on the outside paired alongside harvin just might help ponder big time.

headless_norseman wrote:
I think this is a problem. If we are banking on Ponder, then he's it for the next 1-2 years, at least. His upside would be someone like a Matt Ryan or Joe Flacco. And that's an if. The 49rs grabbed a 2nd QB and look where they are at. The Seahawks grabbed Wilson after signing Flynn. The Skins drafted 2 QB's. Meanwhile, a team like the Rams stuck with Bradford and fail another season. QB's don't grow on trees an when you bank on one guy like this on hope, that's a good recipe for failure.

We did not make it to 10-6 because of our passing game. If we don't look and grab another one this draft, or the next draft, at the very least, we are in all likelihood looking at being desperate for the next 5 seasons.

I don't agree with the labelling of the Bradford lead Rams as a failure. After a dissapointing 2011 season, Jeff Fisher worked wonders, keeping the '9ers without a win in two contests and not finishing far off a winning record.

Without getting off topic, I do agree though, an impact making back-up is a necessity if Ponder doesn't work out in the long run.

Mothman wrote:The top 3 passing offenses in the league this year were New Orleans, Detroit and Dallas. They didn't compete for HFA in the playoffs.

Ummm I'm the one arguing for balance here xD. We have a top shelf run game with an abysmal passing game. And sometimes the stats are misleading. Teams pass a lot because they're losing they don't lose because they pass a lot. The opposite is true as well. Playoff teams sometimes appear to have better run games than they actually do because they won most of their games and spent a lot of time running out the clock. How many games were we trailing from start to finish and Ponder still struggled to put up 100 yards? The dude even struggles to rack up yards in garbage time vs prevent.

Mothman wrote:They developed Brad Johnson. Other than Culpepper and Johnson, you'd have to go all the way back to Wade Wilson or Tommy Kramer (I never thought Wilson was that great).

Ha, and of those 4 only Culpepper ended up being more than a "game manager". You could argue we're good at developing game managers. Although had we drafted Marcus Allen instead of Darrin Nelson we could possibly be referring to Kramer as 2 time super bowl champion Tommy Kramer.

Purple bruise wrote:Wow. I did not notice that Frazier was giddy. Upbeat maybe but giddy

Yeah probably not giddy, and nobody is saying confidence is a bad thing, but what makes it unusual was Frazier had been an unemotional statue for the past 2 seasons.

dead_poet wrote:Supporting evidence.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs/2012/st ... ewis-raven

I'm sorry but that's just not very compelling evidence at all. I mentioned our lack of balance earlier. What the pro Ponder crowd fails to realize is most of the "balanced" teams that have won or even made it to the super bowl had 1 thing in common, they had upper echelon QB's who could pass when their teams needed them to or were good enough to keep defenses honest. No team made it to a super bowl with a "just don't turn the ball over" QB. In fact I would argue only 2 teams in super bowl history had just a "game manager" type QB ('00 Ravens and '02 Bucs) and what did those 2 teams have in common? Absolute shutdown defenses.

Mothman wrote:There's no shortage of examples beyond that one. For example, the two teams that will be playing in the Super Bowl this year are both balanced teams that don't lean on their passing games as the primary means of winning football games.

You're right, but both teams have QB's that they can lean on if they have to. Both Flacco and Kaepernick are capable of winning games on their own and have good enough arms to keep defenses honest. You won't see either defense stacking the box against them because they're not afraid to get beat deep. And you're never going to see Ponder burn a Rahim Moore with a 60 yard laser with his team down by 7 and only 40 seconds to go.

dead_poet wrote:Christian Ponder - QB - Vikings

The Minneapolis Star-Tribune stresses the Vikings will not be looking for a quarterback to compete with Christian Ponder this offseason.

That's just great, I'm glad this team is content with mediocrity. I'm glad we don't think like a franchise at all concerned with winning a championship. Yep lets continue to put all our eggs in this one fragile basket. Yep lets not work on a viable backup plan in case this guy doesn't work out. We'll just bring in all these other failures and start all over if he doesn't. Sounds like a winning strategy to me. If you've ever wondered why this team hasn't made it to a super bowl in 35 years it's because of decisions like this. While playoff caliber teams work to upgrade their weaknesses, we just coddle and hope for the best.

Sorry just needing to interject and try and show you the imbalance of your opinion

http://www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow ... 1150.story

There is the bomb I assume you are refering to.


Here is Ponders bomb


http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-high ... yard-catch


I could see how you could argue that the passes are equal. But to call flaccos a "laser" and Ponders not is silly. I would even like to point out that Wright is covered better and Ponder hits him in stride which was the only chance of completion where as Flacco forces his receiver to pull up and if the Denver DB had played the man better probably could have prevented a TD.

Reignman wrote:Ummm I'm the one arguing for balance here xD.

I'm certainly not arguing against it. Heck, it's practically my mantra when it comes to discussions of championship football!

We have a top shelf run game with an abysmal passing game. And sometimes the stats are misleading. Teams pass a lot because they're losing they don't lose because they pass a lot. The opposite is true as well. Playoff teams sometimes appear to have better run games than they actually do because they won most of their games and spent a lot of time running out the clock. How many games were we trailing from start to finish and Ponder still struggled to put up 100 yards? The dude even struggles to rack up yards in garbage time vs prevent.

I agree that stats can be misleading. However, the answer to your question ("How many games were we trailing from start to finish and Ponder still struggled to put up 100 yards?") is zero. There were no games in 2012 in which the Vikes trailed "from start to finish" and Ponder struggled to put up 100 yards passing.

I'm sorry but that's just not very compelling evidence at all. I mentioned our lack of balance earlier. What the pro Ponder crowd fails to realize is most of the "balanced" teams that have won or even made it to the super bowl had 1 thing in common, they had upper echelon QB's who could pass when their teams needed them to or were good enough to keep defenses honest. No team made it to a super bowl with a "just don't turn the ball over" QB. In fact I would argue only 2 teams in super bowl history had just a "game manager" type QB ('00 Ravens and '02 Bucs) and what did those 2 teams have in common? Absolute shutdown defenses.

I don't think anybody is failing to realize the importance of the QB position or saying Ponder will lead the Vikes to the Super Bowl if he can't play better than he did overall this season. I think we all, including the "pro Ponder crowd" acknowledge that he has to get better. The core disagreement seems to be about how much he can improve and where his ceiling is as an NFL QB.

In the last game of the season (and in some others too) Ponder did exactly what you say a Super Bowl team needs it's QB to do. He passed when his team needed him to do it and he kept the defense honest. A game like that final week win, against playoff-caliber competition, reveals his upside just as a performance like the one he had against the Packers several weeks earlier illustrated his downside.

You're right, but both teams have QB's that they can lean on if they have to. Both Flacco and Kaepernick are capable of winning games on their own and have good enough arms to keep defenses honest. You won't see either defense stacking the box against them because they're not afraid to get beat deep. And you're never going to see Ponder burn a Rahim Moore with a 60 yard laser with his team down by 7 and only 40 seconds to go.

Flacco and Kaepernick aren't capable of winning games on their own. That's the same silly rhetoric the media likes to spout about QBs when they're fawning all over them. Even the best QBs are at the mercy of their teammates when it comes to success or failure and one of the reasons teams are reluctant to stack the box against them is because they have excellent weapons! Ponder's not throwing to Smith and Boldin or Crabtree and Davis.

That's just great, I'm glad this team is content with mediocrity. I'm glad we don't think like a franchise at all concerned with winning a championship. Yep lets continue to put all our eggs in this one fragile basket. Yep lets not work on a viable backup plan in case this guy doesn't work out. We'll just bring in all these other failures and start all over if he doesn't. Sounds like a winning strategy to me. If you've ever wondered why this team hasn't made it to a super bowl in 35 years it's because of decisions like this. While playoff caliber teams work to upgrade their weaknesses, we just coddle and hope for the best.

Let's see if they implement a good backup plan or not. You seem to rule out any chance of improvement from Ponder, as if second year QBs are all they will ever be and have never been known to get better. The Vikes may not be interested in bringing in a QB to compete with Ponder for the starting job but that doesn't mean they're willing to settle for mediocrity or that they have no interest in a Plan B. It's January. Let's see where things stand in August instead of condemning the team for actions not yet taken.

PurpleJarl wrote:Sorry just needing to interject and try and show you the imbalance of your opinion

http://www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow ... 1150.story

There is the bomb I assume you are refering to.


Here is Ponders bomb


http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-high ... yard-catch


I could see how you could argue that the passes are equal. But to call flaccos a "laser" and Ponders not is silly. I would even like to point out that Wright is covered better and Ponder hits him in stride which was the only chance of completion where as Flacco forces his receiver to pull up and if the Denver DB had played the man better probably could have prevented a TD.

Thanks for posting that. Ponder threw that ball about 55 yards and hit Wright perfectly.

Mothman wrote: Thanks for posting that. Ponder threw that ball about 55 yards and hit Wright perfectly.

Those are the types of plays that get me enthused about Ponder's future. Give him some pass protection and get a receiver down the field (I must say Wright was very well covered and it took a perfectly thrown ball to make the play).

Reignman wrote:Ummm I'm the one arguing for balance here xD. We have a top shelf run game with an abysmal passing game. And sometimes the stats are misleading. Teams pass a lot because they're losing they don't lose because they pass a lot. The opposite is true as well. Playoff teams sometimes appear to have better run games than they actually do because they won most of their games and spent a lot of time running out the clock. How many games were we trailing from start to finish and Ponder still struggled to put up 100 yards? The dude even struggles to rack up yards in garbage time vs prevent.
Ha, and of those 4 only Culpepper ended up being more than a "game manager". You could argue we're good at developing game managers. Although had we drafted Marcus Allen instead of Darrin Nelson we could possibly be referring to Kramer as 2 time super bowl champion Tommy Kramer.
Yeah probably not giddy, and nobody is saying confidence is a bad thing, but what makes it unusual was Frazier had been an unemotional statue for the past 2 seasons.
I'm sorry but that's just not very compelling evidence at all. I mentioned our lack of balance earlier. What the pro Ponder crowd fails to realize is most of the "balanced" teams that have won or even made it to the super bowl had 1 thing in common, they had upper echelon QB's who could pass when their teams needed them to or were good enough to keep defenses honest. No team made it to a super bowl with a "just don't turn the ball over" QB. In fact I would argue only 2 teams in super bowl history had just a "game manager" type QB ('00 Ravens and '02 Bucs) and what did those 2 teams have in common? Absolute shutdown defenses.
You're right, but both teams have QB's that they can lean on if they have to. Both Flacco and Kaepernick are capable of winning games on their own and have good enough arms to keep defenses honest. You won't see either defense stacking the box against them because they're not afraid to get beat deep. And you're never going to see Ponder burn a Rahim Moore with a 60 yard laser with his team down by 7 and only 40 seconds to go.
That's just great, I'm glad this team is content with mediocrity. I'm glad we don't think like a franchise at all concerned with winning a championship. Yep lets continue to put all our eggs in this one fragile basket. Yep lets not work on a viable backup plan in case this guy doesn't work out. We'll just bring in all these other failures and start all over if he doesn't. Sounds like a winning strategy to me. If you've ever wondered why this team hasn't made it to a super bowl in 35 years it's because of decisions like this. While playoff caliber teams work to upgrade their weaknesses, we just coddle and hope for the best.

I apologize for being harsh, but you are being delusional if you think this team is going to go out and grab a QB that would compete for the starting job. Face it, this is Ponder's job to lose and he will get one last season to show case what he can do.

That being said, this team will find a back up QB one way or another. Personally, I hope they decide to get a veteran QB and draft a QB to work with should Ponder flop this season.

ViciousBritishVike wrote:

He was the #1 pick and the Rams have been stuck since. I actually chose him as an example in conjunction with the Skins as the Rams traded away their rights to RGIII, and also as a situation where what better position the Rams would be in today if they had taken RGIII themselves.

i wouldnt even think about drafting a qb. the prospects dont look all that great. vikings need to do what the redskins did and move up to grab one in 2014 or 2015. dont see ponder getting much better.
i always thought kaepernick had a huge upside like RG3 and cam newton.

I really don't understand this. I honestly don't mind if ponder doesn't get much better. He ended his season with over 200 yards and 3 TDs vs the Green Bay packers. Effectively winning a shoot out with the most shoot out happy team in the NFL barring maybe the Pats. If he plays like that all of next year we will do great. I get that he probably wont play that well but he had more decent games then not last year ( I would say about 9) and he finished strong. He has at least earned a shot next year.