What are your expectations for Teddy this season?

[losperros]

I understand why Zimmer answered as he did but the answer to his question is "not enough". They're ranked 23rd in points per game and they're 2-2, not 4-0. Logically, getting more points and production out of their passing game could help them improve their record and ranking.

If Bridgewater is going to do those special things for the franchise, he needs to step up his game but he'll also need better protection. It's not on him alone.

I agree. Just wondering but shouldn't the offensive coordinator also take responsibility for all this, especially if the QB has thrown a paltry 2 TDs in 4 games in the present scheme?

Or does Turner get a pass again?

[Mothman]

I agree. Just wondering but shouldn't the offensive coordinator also take responsibility for all this, especially if the QB has thrown a paltry 2 TDs in 4 games in the present scheme?

Or does Turner get a pass again?

So far, he's basically been "Teflon Turner" but if the passing game doesn't pick up soon, I would think we'll begin seeing more criticism directed his way. I think he has take some responsibility for the team having the league's least productive passing game thus far.

[IrishViking]

So far, he's basically been "Teflon Turner" but if the passing game doesn't pick up soon, I would think we'll begin seeing more criticism directed his way. I think he has take some responsibility for the team having the league's least productive passing game thus far.

But then he gets full credit for Peterson's surging 30+ year old season. To me he is damned if you do, damned if you dont.

Lets just set aside for a second the 49ers game because that was awful all around in every facet and to me that falls way more on Zimmer as a head coach than Norv as a OC.

For the last 20 minutes of the Chargers Game Teddy was in "hand off" mode because the game was nearly locked up. there were roughly 3 possession where I dont recall him NEEDING to throw the ball. yes stats are nice but if he throw a 30 yarders trying to get on the reel and its intercepted its pointless. We were winning.

Further anytime we get inside the ten its handing off to either Asiata or Peterson because if you throw it and fail you are an idiot because you have Peterson and Asiata. This is to only touch on the Peterson effect because I can think of one drive in Denver and a couple others that were basically "taken away" from Teddy by long Peterson runs. I don't think you can discount that.

I wish there was a simple way to look up Drive stats because I would not honestly be surprised if Teddy has about half a game less of drives that could tactically involve passing as would be average this time of year. Its been a strange year for us Offensively.

I agree that I expect more going forward but considering a teamwide subpar effort week one, a bye week, and in the remaining three games him "losing" multiple drives from either a 90 yard interception return, 20 minutes of "garbage" time protecting a lead, and three or so long runs from Peterson early in drives that removed the need to pass for more than a few yards, I think he isn't doing that bad. From what I have seen Norv probably could have leaned on Teddy more and his stats would probably be a hundred or so yards better with an extra TD or two but then we would be wondering why Peterson wasn't the Offensive focus.

[Mothman]

But then he gets full credit for Peterson's surging 30+ year old season. To me he is damned if you do, damned if you dont.

Why would he get full credit for Peterson's season thus far? Nobody is suggesting he should get sole blame for the lack of productivity from the passing game.

Lets just set aside for a second the 49ers game because that was awful all around in every facet and to me that falls way more on Zimmer as a head coach than Norv as a OC.

For the last 20 minutes of the Chargers Game Teddy was in "hand off" mode because the game was nearly locked up. there were roughly 3 possession where I dont recall him NEEDING to throw the ball. yes stats are nice but if he throw a 30 yarders trying to get on the reel and its intercepted its pointless. We were winning.

Further anytime we get inside the ten its handing off to either Asiata or Peterson because if you throw it and fail you are an idiot because you have Peterson and Asiata. This is to only touch on the Peterson effect because I can think of one drive in Denver and a couple others that were basically "taken away" from Teddy by long Peterson runs. I don't think you can discount that.

I wish there was a simple way to look up Drive stats because I would not honestly be surprised if Teddy has about half a game less of drives that could tactically involve passing as would be average this time of year. Its been a strange year for us Offensively.

I agree that I expect more going forward but considering a teamwide subpar effort week one, a bye week, and in the remaining three games him "losing" multiple drives from either a 90 yard interception return, 20 minutes of "garbage" time protecting a lead, and three or so long runs from Peterson early in drives that removed the need to pass for more than a few yards, I think he isn't doing that bad. From what I have seen Norv probably could have leaned on Teddy more and his stats would probably be a hundred or so yards better with an extra TD or two but then we would be wondering why Peterson wasn't the Offensive focus.

I've wondered that in 2 games already.

There's no reason to set aside the 49ers game. It represents 25% of the games they've season thus far. It counts (in the standings, in the stats, everywhere).

There are inevitably going to be game situations where the team didn't need to pass. Teams with more productive passing games face those situations too.

I understand the point you're making above about run production taking away opportunities for points and production from the passing game but that's an argument that only goes so far because it's not as if it's impossible to be productive in both areas (or as if run production is the only thing that takes those opportunities away). If the Vikes had a more productive passing game to go with their running game, they might actually have a better record right now.

I don't understand: are we supposed to simply be okay with the Vikes having the least productive passing game in the league, with the implication that they simply couldn't have been more productive due to game circumstances, opportunities for the RBs, etc.? How is this anything but an area in which the team clearly has to get better and as the offensive coordinator, doesn't Turner shoulder at least some of the responsibility (and thus every football fan's favorite word, accountability) for the sub-par production? Or does he just get a pass, as Craig asked?

[jackal]

IMO this is where Fantasy is bad for the NFL. Fans want their QB to throw for three hundred yards
every game. In NFL history the game was low scoring and a running game.Few teams passed even half
of the time. IMO all teddy has to is make passes when they are available.

In addition our OL issues have restricted our offense. IMO we would have won the Denver game without
all the OL injuries.

Key your cool and don't turn the ball over make plays when needed .. Thats Teddy's job

[J. Kapp 11]

Here's something interesting, speaking of productivity in the passing game.

After the first four games of 2009, Brett Favre had roughly 100 more yards passing than Teddy does right now. I'm not saying that Teddy is going to finish with 4,000+ yards like Favre did, but it does remind us of one indisputable fact ... there's a long way to go before the season's final stats are tabulated.

[Mothman]

IMO this is where Fantasy is bad for the NFL. Fans want their QB to throw for three hundred yards
every game. In NFL history the game was low scoring and a running game.Few teams passed even half
of the time. IMO all teddy has to is make passes when they are available.

In addition our OL issues have restricted our offense. IMO we would have won the Denver game without
all the OL injuries.

Keep your cool and don't turn the ball over make plays when needed .. Thats Teddy's job

Okay, but wouldn't you agree that "when needed" would seem to encompass "when needed to win games" and the Vikings are 2-2, not 4-0. I agree that fantasy football has created an over-emphasis on stats but I disagree that what we're talking about here is that sort of "fantasy focus". Stats indicate production and production leads to winning. The Vikes need to get more production out of their passing game or, if not, they need to do more in other areas to make up for it. I'm on board with Zimmer's attitude (ie: he cares about scoring, not how they score). That's fine but the job needs to get done. I'm just pointing out that the area in which the Vikes are currently ranked #32 out of 32 teams is probably the one needs to take up some of the slack. I have no idea why that's meeting with resistance.

There's no doubt that OL issues have been a big part of the problem but they have to find solutions. I seriously doubt this team is going to make the playoffs without getting more production out of their passing game than they have thus far.

[Mothman]

Here's something interesting, speaking of productivity in the passing game.

After the first four games of 2009, Brett Favre had roughly 100 more yards passing than Teddy does right now. I'm not saying that Teddy is going to finish with 4,000+ yards like Favre did, but it does remind us of one indisputable fact ... there's a long way to go before the season's final stats are tabulated.

Indeed, that's an indisputable fact. There is a long way to go. I'm hoping we see improved production.

On the other hand, in 2009, Favre had 8 TDs and 1 INT after 4 games, the Vikes were averaging 29.5 points per game and they were undefeated. If they were averaging 9.5 points more per game thus far this season and sitting at 4-0, there would be less reason to be critical of their passing production thus far.

[J. Kapp 11]

Indeed, that's an indisputable fact. There is a long way to go. I'm hoping we see improved production.

In 2009, Favre had 8 TDs and 1 INT after 4 games, the Vikes were averaging 29.5 points per game and they were undefeated. If they were averaging 9.5 points more per game thus far this season and sitting at 4-0, there would be less reason to be critical of their passing production thus far.

Absolutely no doubt of those facts! I wish we were scoring more, too.

I've said it before, but Teddy's performance against the Broncos, especially his play in the second half, leaves me feeling optimistic. Of course my gut feelings could simply be gas.

[Mothman]

Absolutely no doubt of those facts! I wish we were scoring more, too.

I've said it before, but Teddy's performance against the Broncos, especially his play in the second half, leaves me feeling optimistic. Of course my gut feelings could simply be gas.

If that turns out to be the case, you have my sympathy.

Let's hope we see an impressive performance from the passing game and a win over the Chiefs this weekend. I'd love to see the Vikes come out of the bye, improve on some of their shortcomings and set themselves up for a run into the playoffs.

[jackal]

Okay, but wouldn't you agree that "when needed" would seem to encompass "when needed to win games" and the Vikings are 2-2, not 4-0. I agree that fantasy football has created an over-emphasis on stats but I disagree that what we're talking about here is that sort of "fantasy focus". Stats indicate production and production leads to winning. The Vikes need to get more production out of their passing game or, if not, they need to do more in other areas to make up for it. I'm on board with Zimmer's attitude (ie: he cares about scoring, not how they score). That's fine but the job needs to get done. I'm just pointing out that the area in which the Vikes are currently ranked #32 out of 32 teams is probably the one needs to take up some of the slack. I have no idea why that's meeting with resistance.

Lets look back at some games then Wallace dropped or failed to catch a red zone pass week one and three or four other times
receivers didn't catch the ball in the game.. so we will say one touchdown at least and 70 yards..but lets just face it the Vikings
dropped a stinking rotten egg, in the Monday night game.

I know Rudolf also dropped another touchdown pass slightly high or behind him.. Rudolf is getting paid Pro Bowl money for a guy
that isn't producing near that level. For a guy making pro bowl money (Wallace included) they should catch those balls

My only knock on Teddy (and I am giving him some leeway due to pocket collapse) is accuracy..

So I think Teddy would be ranked in the middle given our offense... That's enough in my book for ...

I don't understand the Vikings not signing Mathis and another Tackle, once we lost two or three starters.
I know the Vikings want a home grown organization, with your guys, but when 60 percent of your OL is
down and replaced with new guys or guys in a new spot... Fusco healthy but new spot.. Loadholt second year out
Sullivan more then half the season..Clemmings good pick up but new to the OL..Harris new to the spot..
I am not a huge Loadholt fan.. He is a great run mauler, and not great in pass protection.. I know a lot of Vikings
fans, do not agree.. I just want our OL to be the priority, until it gets fixed...You can't have a run based time
control offense, without a good OL...

[Mothman]

Lets look back at some games then Wallace dropped or failed to catch a red zone pass week one and three or four other times
receivers didn't catch the ball in the game.. so we will say one touchdown at least and 70 yards..but lets just face it the Vikings
dropped a stinking rotten egg, in the Monday night game.

I know Rudolf also dropped another touchdown pass slightly high or behind him.. Rudolf is getting paid Pro Bowl money for a guy
that isn't producing near that level. For a guy making pro bowl money (Wallace included) they should catch those balls

My only knock on Teddy (and I am giving him some leeway due to pocket collapse) is accuracy..

So I think Teddy would be ranked in the middle given our offense... That's enough in my book for ...

I don't understand the Vikings not signing Mathis and another Tackle, once we lost two or three starters.
I know the Vikings want a home grown organization, with your guys, but when 60 percent of your OL is
down and replaced with new guys or guys in a new spot... Fusco healthy but new spot.. Loadholt second year out
Sullivan more then half the season..Clemmings good pick up but new to the OL..Harris new to the spot..
I am not a huge Loadholt fan.. He is a great run mauler, and not great in pass protection.. I know a lot of Vikings
fans, do not agree.. I just want our OL to be the priority, until it gets fixed...You can't have a run based time
control offense, without a good OL...

You kind of shifted gears into a discussion about the running offense there at the end.

It's clear to me that we're not on the same page and discussing the same thing here. You seem to be defending Bridgewater but I'm talking about the Vikings passing game. Wallace, Rudolph and the OL are a part of that too so when I say the Vikings need to be more productive in the passing game, I'm not simply saying Bridgewater needs to be better. He's a key component of their passing game but he's still just a component.

[jackal]

You kind of shifted gears into a discussion about the running offense there at the end.

It's clear to me that we're not on the same page and discussing the same thing here. You seem to be defending Bridgewater but I'm talking about the Vikings passing game. Wallace, Rudolph and the OL are a part of that too so when I say the Vikings need to be more productive in the passing game, I'm not simply saying Bridgewater needs to be better. He's a key component of their passing game but he's still just a component.

Yeah I sort of link those things... and I only give Teddy about twenty percent blame at best.
IMO in this offense if it works well Teddy should have peaks and valleys in Stats...The running
game should as well. If they load the box as in Ponder Era.. Teddy should thrive with a healthy
OL. If Teddy could not light teams with one sided defense (I.E. 9 in the box) that would be
a different conversation.

Post script.. In all honesty; this is Teddy's first year, as a proposed starter, with full training
camp.. Aikman(1-15), Peyton(3-13) and Rodgers(first two years as backup about 48 percent completion %)
all three struggled in the beginning, due to various reasons

[Mothman]

Yeah I sort of link those things... and I only give Teddy about twenty percent blame at best.
IMO in this offense if it works well Teddy should have peaks and valleys in Stats...The running
game should as well. If they load the box as in Ponder Era.. Teddy should thrive with a healthy
OL. If Teddy could not light teams with one sided defense (I.E. 9 in the box) that would be
a different conversation.

Post script.. In all honesty; this is Teddy's first year, as a proposed starter, with full training
camp.. Aikman(1-15), Peyton(3-13) and Rodgers(first two years as backup about 48 percent completion %)
all three struggled in the beginning, due to various reasons

Most young QBs go through some struggles so it's to be expected, especially when the team has pass protection problems like the Vikes have had with both Ponder and Bridgewater. I was hoping the latter wouldn't have to deal with them but if anything with the injuries the've suffered, it's been worse.

[jackal]

Most young QBs go through some struggles so it's to be expected, especially when the team has pass protection problems like the Vikes have had with both Ponder and Bridgewater. I was hoping the latter wouldn't have to deal with them but if anything with the injuries the've suffered, it's been worse.

Teddy really impressed me in Denver.. he had know protection and still moved the ball at times...