vikes wanted manziel

[Mothman]

Those are all great questions and obviously only time will tell. The narrative thread that I find most interesting is the one involving Manziel at pick #22. If Manziel takes the league by storm and vaults CLE from the toilet bowl to the Super Bowl, Spielman will forever be criticized for not upping the ante for that pick or for simply not taking him at 8. Unless, of course, Bridgewater also finds big success or at least is on par with Manziel's success. You're right that Barr's results will also factor in to the overall "equation" of evaluating Spielman's performance as GM.

It will be fun to see how it all plays out. Hopefully, Spielman and the Vikes will come away from it smelling like the proverbial rose.

I hope that the Wilfs are measured and deliberate in evaluating Spielman. I think it is important to look at the bigger picture, not just how well he's done with the QB position. It seems to me that he's done a solid job in acquiring talent, especially through the draft. What I like best is that he seems to learn and improve each year. I like his hire of Zimmer and Turner and as of right now they seem to have the kind of relationship and mutual respect that is conducive to success. The flame of adversity is what tests an individual's mettle, however, so again, time will tell.

I hope the Wilfs will be measured and deliberate when evaluating Spielman too. I certainly don't think a GM's job should hinge on how he does at the QB position, especially because it's obviously very difficult to evaluate and to predict future success. I think Spielman has handled the draft well so far. I'm less sold on how he's handled other aspects of things, most notably the MLB position, which has remained unresolved for years. It's been addressed with a few late round picks but it hasn't been treated with any urgency and I think the defense has suffered for it. Hopefully, Mauti or Cole or somebody will seize the position and play well.

Anyway, that has nothing to do with the Vikes wanting Manziel or choosing Bridgewater so it's probably a subject for another thread.

[Mothman]

I don't think it matters. Ponder wasn't their first choice either. Apparently they were higher on Locker and Gabbert (And of course Newton, but he was always going #1).

There's a significant difference: they didn't pass on an opportunity to select their top-rated QB in that draft.

I'm especially not worried if they had Manziel and Teddy graded similar, if not equal, as reports suggest.

I'm not worried either, just interested in the entire dynamic created by passing on the two QBs at #9, choosing Barr, trying to trade up for Manziel and then eventually moving up to draft Bridgewater.

[Mothman]

The opportunity had a price though, and they weren't willing to pay it. I wasn't giving up next years first to move up for any player in the draft, even Clowney. It's not like they agreed to a deal and told Philly at the last minute "Na we changed our mind we'll just wait."

The potential trade with Philly isn't the opportunity I was referring to above. They had the 8th pick in the draft, traded down to the ninth and passed on drafting a QB at that spot to select Barr. That's the opportunity I was referring to in my response to your previous post.

[Eli]

I'm not worried either, just interested in the entire dynamic created by passing on the two QBs at #9, choosing Barr, trying to trade up for Manziel and then eventually moving up to draft Bridgewater.

It's only interesting if, indeed, they were trying to move up and get Manziel with that 22nd pick. If they actually wanted Bridgewater, then it couldn't possibly have worked out better for them.

The more conservative play would have been to take Bridgewater with that 8th or 9th pick, but I'm guessing that they simply weren't so in love with him that they were that concerned about losing him.

[HardcoreVikesFan]

It's only interesting if, indeed, they were trying to move up and get Manziel with that 22nd pick. If they actually wanted Bridgewater, then it couldn't possibly have worked out better for them.

The more conservative play would have been to take Bridgewater with that 8th or 9th pick, but I'm guessing that they simply weren't so in love with him that they were that concerned about losing him.

Honestly, I believe the team WAS trying to move up for Bridgewater at 22. I know the media is 'reporting' otherwise, but, there were legit concerns that Cleveland could take Bridgewater 22nd overall.

In end, we got the best quarterback in the draft for a bargain rate. I have no ill wishes against Manziel, but I am almost certain he will not be a better quarterback than Bridgewater.

[Demi]

In end, we got the best quarterback in the draft for a bargain rate.

This is the only part that confuses me. Best quarterback according to who? Rick Spielman. Boy there's a judge of QB talent I'd rather not be aligned with! I also think Bridgewater was the best QB in the draft. But the fact that no other NFL team seemed to think so does leave me a little concerned.

We only gave up a 4th to move up from the 2nd, before the draft even started it was all over the place that the Seahawks wanted to give up that pick. Teams had hours to work a trade or figure something out, and no team was willing to beat a 4th with the 8th in the 2nd to get that pick? Not even the Texans with the very next pick? Or any other team?

We'll see but a lot of pretty big things pointing in the opposite direction of some amazing steal of the draft.

[Webbfann]

This is the only part that confuses me. Best quarterback according to who? Rick Spielman. Boy there's a judge of QB talent I'd rather not be aligned with! I also think Bridgewater was the best QB in the draft. But the fact that no other NFL team seemed to think so does leave me a little concerned.

We only gave up a 4th to move up from the 2nd, before the draft even started it was all over the place that the Seahawks wanted to give up that pick. Teams had hours to work a trade or figure something out, and no team was willing to beat a 4th with the 8th in the 2nd to get that pick? Not even the Texans with the very next pick? Or any other team?

We'll see but a lot of pretty big things pointing in the opposite direction of some amazing steal of the draft.

Maybe Norv Turner thought Teddy was the best QB in the draft for the Vikings, and maybe he talked Spielman out of Manziel. We don't know whether Teddy was 99% Speilman or 42% Spielman.

Its all a gamble anyway. I don't think other teams knew something we didn't. Everyone knew it wasn't the strongest group of QBs this year, so nobody was breaking their leg to get one of them. That's all. The good thing is there is another draft next year. But I think we got the best QB.

[frosted]

This is the only part that confuses me. Best quarterback according to who? Rick Spielman. Boy there's a judge of QB talent I'd rather not be aligned with!


I also think Bridgewater was the best QB in the draft. But the fact that no other NFL team seemed to think so does leave me a little concerned.

But yet you are aligned with him..and you feel that way, but you're reaching for a reason to ... NOT feel that way? I'm confused..

We only gave up a 4th to move up from the 2nd, before the draft even started it was all over the place that the Seahawks wanted to give up that pick. Teams had hours to work a trade or figure something out, and no team was willing to beat a 4th with the 8th in the 2nd to get that pick? Not even the Texans with the very next pick? Or any other team?

We'll see but a lot of pretty big things pointing in the opposite direction of some amazing steal of the draft.

It feels like you're grasping at straws because you want Spielman to be wrong with the pick, despite your personal convictions about Bridgewater. Maybe there's not a conspiracy here? I don't know about Seattle wanting to move down, and it being all over the place - perhaps that was the case and I missed it, but it looks like that wasn't their true intention at any point until..:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... ue-easley/

From that article, it sounds like they were prepared to sit tight until New England made their selection at 29.

[Slick Rick]

This is the only part that confuses me. Best quarterback according to who? Rick Spielman. Boy there's a judge of QB talent I'd rather not be aligned with! I also think Bridgewater was the best QB in the draft. But the fact that no other NFL team seemed to think so does leave me a little concerned.

We only gave up a 4th to move up from the 2nd, before the draft even started it was all over the place that the Seahawks wanted to give up that pick. Teams had hours to work a trade or figure something out, and no team was willing to beat a 4th with the 8th in the 2nd to get that pick? Not even the Texans with the very next pick? Or any other team?

We'll see but a lot of pretty big things pointing in the opposite direction of some amazing steal of the draft.

Yeah, Rick Spielman was the only person who called Bridgewater the best QB in the draft. Not like he was considered the best prospect from almost every source until a couple of months ago or anything like that.

[Demi]

But yet you are aligned with him..and you feel that way, but you're reaching for a reason to ... NOT feel that way? I'm confused..

Situation is confused. Look at the video when they picked him. Along with report of the Vikings wanting Manziel? And Norv wanting Bridgewater, and MMQB comments about Manziel. Seems Norv/Zygi loved him. "Vikings" ie GM/Coach maybe not? Seems how I read it so far. I'm not reaching anything. Just calling how I see it. And how the picture is being painted.

I don't know about Seattle wanting to move down, and it being all over the place - perhaps that was the case and I missed it, but it looks like that wasn't their true intention at any point until..:

With just six picks in the draft, the Seahawks wanted to trade back and pick up extra selections.

There was a scroll from before the draft even started that the Seahawks wanted to pick up extra picks and were looking to trade their first to do it. And no other team was willing to give up a better deal to get "the best QB in the draft"? Including the next pick in the draft Texans outside the division needing a QB.

[frosted]

Situation is confused. Look at the video when they picked him. Along with report of the Vikings wanting Manziel? And Norv wanting Bridgewater, and MMQB comments about Manziel. Seems Norv/Zygi loved him. "Vikings" ie GM/Coach maybe not? Seems how I read it so far. I'm not reaching anything. Just calling how I see it. And how the picture is being painted.
There was a scroll from before the draft even started that the Seahawks wanted to pick up extra picks and were looking to trade their first to do it. And no other team was willing to give up a better deal to get "the best QB in the draft"? Including the next pick in the draft Texans outside the division needing a QB.

I understand, and I actually believe they would have preferred Manziel (I would have too, but Teddy is a heck of a player, also, IMO, and my top three were Manziel, Ted, and Murray). But that's beside the point - if you felt like Ted is/was the best QB prospect in the draft..just breathe and be glad we picked him! I know it's hard, considering the past few years, but if you like him, and we got him..that's all that really matters.

As far as Seattle goes - as that link I posted states, they were prepared to USE that first round pick on Easley, had the Pats not taken him. And anyways, I'm not putting much stock in what other teams did or did not do in the draft to determine how good a chance Ted has at succeeding as a pro. I'm trusting my eyes on this one, and hoping he lives up to the expectations I have for him. I'm glad we drafted him. There's really not much else to do or say at this point. It's just my two cents, but if you like Bridgewater, based on what you've seen of him, I'd urge you to not let past transgressions by the Viking organization jade you.

</end rant>

sorry haha

[Demi]

There's really not much else to do or say at this point. It's just my two cents, but if you like Bridgewater, based on what you've seen of him, I'd urge you to not let past transgressions by the Viking organization jade you.

Vikings? Culpepper wasn't that bad...

Our GM decided AJ Feeley was the future at one point in his career.
Then drafted Ponder his next chance.
3rd strike?
As if being a Vikings fan wasn't bad enough...

[Webbfann]

Jay Glazer broke the story and Peter King wrote about it the other day. There's a link to the latter in the "Vikes wanted Manziel" thread.
... and you probably won't but I don't want to derail this thread into a discussion about the non-trade because there's already a thread for that topic.

OK I'll bring it back to this thread. No, this is exactly the same, its a rumor with no evidence. The only "evidence" that the Vikings wanted Manziel over Bridgewater or traded up for Manziel and not Bridgewater is that several reporters have said it to be so, and not a single one of them names or quotes a source. They simply said in their own words, "the Vikings wanted Manziel" or "Manziel was ahead on their draft board" and we are supposed to believe it. Peter King cites but does not quote "an impeccable NFL source" so I guess we can't question that, can we?

This is what he gives as reason we should believe him:

"So, many of you have asked in the wake of Manziel to Cleveland at 22 and Teddy Bridgewater at 32 whether the Vikings messed this up, whether Bridgewater is just a consolation prize.

All I can tell you is this: I was in Minnesota last month. I spoke to GM Rick Spielman, whom I have known for a long time, and he was dubious about every quarterback in the draft. I spoke to another member of the organization, an influential one, who was similarly skeptical about the quarterbacks in the draft. They didn’t have a fervent belief in any one of them. They did like Manziel. They didn’t want to sell the farm for him.

When the Vikings spent private time with Manziel before the draft at dinner, coach Mike Zimmer was pointed and blunt (which is exactly what Zimmer is) with Manziel. At one point, Zimmer said to Manziel, “I’ve been waiting all my life for this chance. Can I trust you?’’ Manziel said yes. Manziel told Zimmer they would win Super Bowls together. Zimmer loved it. Zimmer wasn’t sure whether he trusted him totally, but he loved it, and he loved the confidence.

So the Vikings wanted Manziel. That is true. But did they want him enough to give the 40th pick in this draft and next year’s first-round pick as well? No. Can’t say that I blame them either"


"So the Vikes wanted Manziel", King says, based on that. There is nothing WHATSOEVER from that exchange that states or even hints that the Vikings wanted Manziel. Honesly I don't think most NFL sports writers could tell facts from speculation and rumor if their lives depended on it.

[Mothman]

OK I'll bring it back to this thread. No, this is exactly the same, its a rumor with no evidence.

I posted a long, detailed response explaining the differences but decided to delete it and keep things simple:

Here's the difference: one report is a rumor (that's the exact word the reporter used), speculating about what the Vikings might do with Adrian Peterson after the upcoming season. It's about what might happen.

The reports about Manziel are about something these reporters are saying did happen. They aren't naming their sources, and their reports don't constitute irrefutable evidence of the trade attempt or the team's intent, but the reporters involved are well-respected veteran writers/reporters who are well-connected in the NFL. They are credible.

The rumor has been repeated by a number of sites, most of which refer to directly back to the source of the rumor.

King's report is a follow-up involving a source he considers "impeccable". He's not just re-reporting what Glazer or Breer reported.

[mondry]

The biggest thing for me that seems to make it believable (not true, just believable with a high probability) is when Spielman was asked about it he didn't say "TB was our guy all along" or "We were trading up for Teddy" he basically said "not gonna talk about it."

Theres no real reason to not say you wanted teddy all along and would probably give a little extra confidence to him if that was the case. So yeah, I think we wanted Manziel and tried to get him, I don't think it's a big deal either so who the heck cares!