Vikings Message Board.Com

VikingLord wrote: I think it's clear that Musgrave doesn't trust Ponder and is trying to call plays that minimize him. Musgrave has his limitations, but it's just not fair to the rest of the team to have to try to play around the QB.

As far as the defense goes, the Lions are going to a tough stop for a lot of defenses this year. Adding Bush is going to prove to be huge for them.

I've been praising the Bush siging all offseason...doesn't change the fact that our Lbs don't fit our scheme.
Ponder is no excuse for Musgrave running 2 straight running plays then a bubble screen to a wideout on 3rd and 9.

The guy draws up clever plays but has very little sense about when to call them.

If your QB is having trouble and your O-line can't see to open up any running lines....try throwing the ball to the MVP before you are down 10 with 4 to go in the 4th. Our defense was on it heels most of the game because of how lions used their running backs in the short passing game.
That's a tenet of the 'west coast system'....not bubble screens on 3rd an 9 when eveyone in the stadium knows it's going to be a pass. The bubble screen should be the 1st down play after the TD run by Ad.

AD is Musgrave's meth.

This offense is loaded...totally loaded. The iffiest guy on it had 135yds receiving today.

Their scheme is tragic IMO.

Purplemania wrote: I don't watch NCAAF, how good is this "Terry Bridgewater"?

He's pretty good. Has a really nice arm, makes good decisions, accurate. Has the ability to run as well, although he doesn't rely on it. He's got as good a shot as any prospect I've seen to develop into a franchise QB.

With that said, though, Manziel reminds me of a cross between Takenton and Favre and he's a proven winner. Thrives under pressure. He's a little on the small side, but the dude is a flat-out player. He'd never make it out of the top ten picks if it weren't for his antics, but if he can keep those up and cause teams to shy away, plus the Vikes reallly suck this year, they could pull off a double-double and snag a franchise DE and a franchise QB in the same draft.

It's a pipe dream. I can't imagine the Vikes will be bad enough to draft that high, and Manziel is unlikely to keep creating questions when its going to cost him money. Still, would be an ideal outcome for the Vikes if they do suck.

Purplemania wrote: I agree with the lack of use with Patterson. Outside of Peterson, he is your most explosive player. Ya might wanna get him the ball more than once during a game. But our coaches are bamboos who only know how to scratch and sniff their buttcrack.

Bamboos? or Baboons?

VikingLord wrote: I think it's clear that Musgrave doesn't trust Ponder and is trying to call plays that minimize him. Musgrave has his limitations, but it's just not fair to the rest of the team to have to try to play around the QB..

They both look like a huge problem to me. The bunched formations are a joke and so is rolling your right hand QB out to the left over and over. The play calling was bad even if protecting ponder was the case. Why blow half our draft on Patterson and have him in for 2 plays?

If you really want to help Ponder out, don't bunch everything up at the LoS. What they should do to buy AD some breathing room is go 3 wide with Simpson, Jennings, Patterson and Rudolph where on any given play two of them get sent deep, the other two run some kind of intermediate route and Peterson becomes the check down. That way, even Ponder should be able to look down the field, nothing deep? Okay how about the intermediate? No? Check it down to Peterson.

Instead you can basically just run / pass blitz every single play with no difference in effectiveness and makes it really hard on the offensive line to figure out exactly who's coming.

Ponder was clearly really bad today and that's very disappointing. He was highly inaccurate and made awful decisions but I feel like the scheme isn't very good. It got Peterson one big surprise run, but after that you just blitz 9 guys and he had like 8 of his next 10 carries for negative yards.

We'll see how it plays out.

JEC334 wrote:QB is not the only problem. Our LBs suck outside of Greenway. Our DBs suck outside of Robison and Smith. The interior D-Line suck. Our offensive coordinator sucks. Leslie Frazier sucks because he doesn't know how to put his best players on the field. I felt bad for Cordarrelle Patterson, he really wanted to touch the ball today but the only time he got to get out there was on special teams. I know he did have one play that went for a 1st down but other than that HOW CAN YOU NOT PUT YOUR 1ST ROUND DRAFT PICK ON THE GOD##### FIELD!!!!

Patterson is a playmaker, he should have been rotated in the lineup or something. This is pathetic. As long as Frazier is coach, we will not be anything more than a wildcard team at best. But how do we even expect to even get there when keep forcing our QB, who already sucks, to throw in 3rd and long situations? I swear, this team can't ever catch a break.

This is the James I know and love--highly emotional after a loss.

I wouldn't say everyone SUCKS, but yeah...I agree that it was ugly. Uglier than I ever would have imagined. Time for the guys to get back to work, especially our offense. And here we all thought there would be some improvement. The only improvement is Simpson. Everything else looks almost identical. It's sickening, really.

allday1991 wrote: Speaking of linebackers, Greenway looked like he has been training his speed with Manti Teo, he looked so slow. On plays where I am use to seeing him run up and catch the rb before he slips of for a first down, and I seen at least 4 times on plays where I thought he had the guy dead to rights and just ended up getting out ran.

Two be fair, the other two Linebackers were invisible too. I like Greenway but he is not going to be able to do it by himself. Outside of that INT you heard nothing of Henderson and you wouldn't even know that Marvin Mitchell wasn't even on the field

Eli wrote: I'd take Terrell Pryor, for **** sake over Ponder right now.

I would even take Matt Flynn over Ponder.

MelanieMFunk wrote: This is the James I know and love--highly emotional after a loss.

I wouldn't say everyone SUCKS, but yeah...I agree that it was ugly. Uglier than I ever would have imagined. Time for the guys to get back to work, especially our offense. And here we all thought there would be some improvement. The only improvement is Simpson. Everything else looks almost identical. It's sickening, really.

Today was simply lack of execution on every side of the ball. I really wanted us to win this game because I thought we had a better chance winning today than we do next week. Chicago is a tough team and in recent years we can never seem to be the Bears on soldier field.

Just Me wrote: It was. Peterson could barely get out of the backfield on many of the plays. I think I saw him take more TFL in this game than I have over his entire career...

Thanks for the info. I figured as much since he's good at breaking tackling tackles and gaining yards after contact. The only times I've seen him really held in check are when he's getting hit behind the line or when the line is failing to get a push and give him any room to run.

It's a disappointing start to the season but the good news is it's just one loss. Bouncing back with a win in Chicago will be a tall order but maybe the Vikes can do it. They won't be lacking motivation to work hard this week.

JEC334 wrote:
I would even take Matt Flynn over Ponder.

Oh, now you're just losing it. Flynn hasn't shown he can do anything but lose his starting job. But, I guess Ponder hasn't done that yet, so maybe Flynn is better in that area. lol.

mondry wrote: They both look like a huge problem to me. The bunched formations are a joke and so is rolling your right hand QB out to the left over and over. The play calling was bad even if protecting ponder was the case. Why blow half our draft on Patterson and have him in for 2 plays?

If you really want to help Ponder out, don't bunch everything up at the LoS. What they should do to buy AD some breathing room is go 3 wide with Simpson, Jennings, Patterson and Rudolph where on any given play two of them get sent deep, the other two run some kind of intermediate route and Peterson becomes the check down. That way, even Ponder should be able to look down the field, nothing deep? Okay how about the intermediate? No? Check it down to Peterson.

Instead you can basically just run / pass blitz every single play with no difference in effectiveness and makes it really hard on the offensive line to figure out exactly who's coming.

Ponder was clearly really bad today and that's very disappointing. He was highly inaccurate and made awful decisions but I feel like the scheme isn't very good. It got Peterson one big surprise run, but after that you just blitz 9 guys and he had like 8 of his next 10 carries for negative yards.

We'll see how it plays out.

With an average or above average QB, your plan is excellent. But this is Ponder. Do you honestly think he's capable of making 3 reads and then check down? No way lol. This guy can barely make 2 reads and he stares down almost everyone he throws it to. There is no game-planning to hide Christian Ponder other than hand it to AP 40 times per game. He is awful and we will have to live with it until we are 0-4 or whenever it takes for Frazier to pull the trigger.

MelanieMFunk wrote: Oh, now you're just losing it. Flynn hasn't shown he can do anything but lose his starting job. But, I guess Ponder hasn't done that yet, so maybe Flynn is better in that area. lol.

That's not fair...lol Because Frazier has proven already that he doesn't know how to put his better players on the field. First it was Harvin, now its Patterson not getting any touches. And this was the same problem Harvin was having last season when he was blowing up at Frazier on the sidelines.

Frazier seems like a good person, but as a coach he is too damn humble. He knows who his better players are but still chooses to keep his sorry ones in hoping they getting better.

It seems like atleast the Raiders knew, Flynn wasn't the answer and wasn't going to risk finding out. We should have done the same for Ponder.

TBH, I was more disappointed with our defense than our offense though. Our LBs and DTs played poorly, and really, outside of Harrison Smith, nobody on defense played well.

Well, it felt like bamboo stakes in the fingers during some of these calls.

4 roll outs to the left and a 3rd and 14 bubble screen. Complete refusal to QB sneak or hand off to Peterson or Gerhardt on 3rd and 1
The two times we had Patterson on the field he made plays. Patterson, our first round draft pick, had to BEG Frazier to get in the game.

JEC334 wrote: That's not fair...lol Because Frazier has proven already that he doesn't know how to put his better players on the field. First it was Harvin, now its Patterson not getting any touches. And this was the same problem Harvin was having last season when he was blowing up at Frazier on the sidelines.

Frazier seems like a good person, but as a coach he is too damn humble. He knows who his better players are but still chooses to keep his sorry ones in hoping they getting better.

It seems like atleast the Raiders knew, Flynn wasn't the answer and wasn't going to risk finding out. We should have done the same for Ponder.

Agreed, Cordarrelle Patterson almost breaks a return, then makes a few people miss a picks up a first down on a screen, and then is never looked to again the whole game. Ridiculous!