Vikings Message Board.Com

Banquo wrote:After lurking in this thread, I spent portions of last night's game focused on Mike Harris at RG. I was pretty impressed with him. He generated movement in the running game and handled Mike Daniels, who is a pretty stellar interior DL. I can't claim to have watched him closely before last night, but it was a positive performance in my book. At just barely 27 with this being his first season at RG, you'd think there would be room for growth there on a team that needs good, young OL.

Exactly. This is what I've seen for the majority of the season from him. He isn't giving up pressure and sending guys way down field in the run game. He literally drove that A-hole Matthews 8 yards down the field last night and of course, Mathews got a penalty because he couldn't take getting embarrassed.

If you go on the vikings website and just watch a bunch of AP's runs, Harris is always the ONLY OL blocking until he hears a whistle. On AP's 21 yard run vs. Arizona, Harris drove a guy for the Cardinals at least 15 yards away from where AP was.

I Loved Harris smash pancake on Matthews. It was awesome !
I think with Harris at RG, Loadholt at RT, Fusco at C, Clemmings may be the LT?
Adding a LG is crucial.

IIsweet wrote:I Loved Harris smash pancake on Matthews. It was awesome !
I think with Harris at RG, Loadholt at RT, Fusco at C, Clemmings may be the LT?
Adding a LG is crucial.

Clemmings at LT? Do you wish Teddy dead?

Sullivan will be back. We'll also have Berger. Either one of them is probably preferable at center over Fusco. And I doubt they cut Kalil.

dead_poet wrote:Clemmings at LT? Do you wish Teddy dead

dead_poet wrote: Clemmings at LT? Do you wish Teddy dead?

Sullivan will be back. We'll also have Berger. Either one of them is probably preferable at center over Fusco. And I doubt they cut Kalil.

Clemmings at LT would be the worst decision of all time.

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Clemmings at LT would be the worst decision of all time.

this thought went through my head while watching matthews kick kalil's butt once again. why not move kalil to a team like the chargers or another top ten drafting team that needs o line help? i can't see paying 11 mil to this guy in the hopes that he turns it around. get what you can for him, and then zero in on joe thomas. he probably has at least 4 good years left and salary wise he will be making close to what kalil will be getting in 2016 if he stays. i'd have no issue giving up our 1st rd pick for him especially since we are drafting so late this year.

Just keep in mind that protection depends on the guys around a player and not just the player himself. Part of Kalil the last two seasons few seasons have been his own injuries plus injuries to those around him. This isn't to say he'll be captain stuff if we draft a new guard, but he might be being asked to handle more that they might otherwise ask of him given the situation at RT. This happened to Loadholt in 2011, all the protection shifted left because we were starting Charlie Johnson at LT and Loadholt got burned much more frequently due to his not having any help whatsoever.

I do not think Kalil is going anywhere and if anything his less than stellar play will save some cap space for signing the younger studs on defense when that time comes. Harris has been OK this year which is good to see, but I agree with Poet. At Guard we have two late round guys as starters, a late round guy at center, and then two high round guys at Tackle. Interior OL could use some talent, which I wear I think they'll go in the early part of the draft unless there is a BPA too good to pass up.

mansquatch wrote:Just keep in mind that protection depends on the guys around a player and not just the player himself. Part of Kalil the last two seasons few seasons have been his own injuries plus injuries to those around him. This isn't to say he'll be captain stuff if we draft a new guard, but he might be being asked to handle more that they might otherwise ask of him given the situation at RT. This happened to Loadholt in 2011, all the protection shifted left because we were starting Charlie Johnson at LT and Loadholt got burned much more frequently due to his not having any help whatsoever.

Sure, the injuries definitely affect him and he's played THROUGH injuries, which is an unfortunate reflection of how crazily dependent ON HIM we are... but Kalil has just plain stunk it up against elite pass rushers, even when he's perfectly healthy (as far as we know). He does not seem to be living up to his promise or to the promise of a LT drafted in the top 5 picks. He just looks slow to me. Especially his reaction times. He will be a major storyline this offseason. I'd love to draft a Tackle in round 1 or 2 that has some flexibility to play RT or LT well, just in case one of several contingencies comes about (injuries, Kalil sucking, Load not recovering properly, Clemmings not developing, etc.).

Texas Vike wrote:Sure, the injuries definitely affect him and he's played THROUGH injuries, which is an unfortunate reflection of how crazily dependent ON HIM we are... but Kalil has just plain stunk it up against elite pass rushers, even when he's perfectly healthy (as far as we know). He does not seem to be living up to his promise or to the promise of a LT drafted in the top 5 picks. He just looks slow to me. Especially his reaction times. He will be a major storyline this offseason. I'd love to draft a Tackle in round 1 or 2 that has some flexibility to play RT or LT well, just in case one of several contingencies comes about (injuries, Kalil sucking, Load not recovering properly, Clemmings not developing, etc.).

Honestly, they could draft o-linemen in the first 3 rounds and I'd understand. I don't know that it's an advisable approach but it would be an understandable strategy.

Given the obvious natural talent and the injuries that he's had to deal with, wouldn't it make the most sense to keep Kalil in the short term and find a viable insurance policy for him should he struggle? I'm thinking of a veteran on the back end like Donald Penn. Because you don't want to lock him up long term and have the past couple years prove to be "who he is," but you also don't want to cut him or trade him for low value and then have him come into his own. Not after the draft capital that the team invested in him. I'd lean towards investing in a contingency and riding it out with him.

Mothman wrote: Honestly, they could draft o-linemen in the first 3 rounds and I'd understand. I don't know that it's an advisable approach but it would be an understandable strategy.

It would but I'm still on board with signing one above-average starter via free agency (in addition to drafting a couple of high-to-mid-level O-linemen) rather than having to rely on the crapshoot of the draft and hoping the rookie you draft (and probably insert into the starting lineup) is more of an immediate asset than anyone else on the roster. I know I sound like a broken record at this point but I'm very weary of rookie offensive linemen starting (technique and strength are typically not there to be average to above-average right away) when we desperately need skilled players to upgrade the position (not immediately downgrade or move laterally). Let's just say that I'm nervous about starting another Clemmings-like rookie. I want to feel confident in an immediate upgrade to the line before we even get to camp.

Banquo wrote:Given the obvious natural talent and the injuries that he's had to deal with, wouldn't it make the most sense to keep Kalil in the short term and find a viable insurance policy for him should he struggle? I'm thinking of a veteran on the back end like Donald Penn. Because you don't want to lock him up long term and have the past couple years prove to be "who he is," but you also don't want to cut him or trade him for low value and then have him come into his own. Not after the draft capital that the team invested in him. I'd lean towards investing in a contingency and riding it out with him.

I agree with the short-term approach with Kalil. However if you sign Penn, you're essentially giving up on Kalil as they obviously can't both start at LT (Penn will likely be re-signed by Oakland or go somewhere to start as he's had a very good year). You won't get to see what you have in Kalil with him on the bench. I think the most prudent approach would be to probably draft some competition, preferably in the first couple of rounds. This is a little depressing to consider because I was really hoping to focus on the interior and not have to also draft a high-round OT but it's looking more and more likely that's the best approach. I just don't trust Kalil long-term. Not with those knees.

dead_poet wrote:It would but I'm still on board with signing one above-average starter via free agency (in addition to drafting a couple of high-to-mid-level O-linemen) rather than having to rely on the crapshoot of the draft and hoping the rookie you draft (and probably insert into the starting lineup) is more of an immediate asset than anyone else on the roster. I know I sound like a broken record at this point but I'm very weary of rookie offensive linemen starting (technique and strength are typically not there to be average to above-average right away) when we desperately need skilled players to upgrade the position (not immediately downgrade or move laterally). Let's just say that I'm nervous about starting another Clemmings-like rookie. I want to feel confident in an immediate upgrade to the line before we even get to camp.

I'd be fine with them signing a veteran. Clemmings wasn't just a rookie, he was a pretty raw rookie and he's played like it so I think a more experienced rookie lineman would have a good chance to step in and play better football (assuming he's a good player in the first place, of course).

I think they have to attack this issue on all fronts but they definitely need to draft some o-linemen and have their eyes not just on the present of the line but it's future.

dead_poet wrote: I agree with the short-term approach with Kalil. However if you sign Penn, you're essentially giving up on Kalil as they obviously can't both start at LT (Penn will likely be re-signed by Oakland or go somewhere to start as he's had a very good year). You won't get to see what you have in Kalil with him on the bench. I think the most prudent approach would be to probably draft some competition, preferably in the first couple of rounds. This is a little depressing to consider because I was really hoping to focus on the interior and not have to also draft a high-round OT but it's looking more and more likely that's the best approach. I just don't trust Kalil long-term. Not with those knees.

Ok, well the idea is to find a veteran who can be a reliable backup to Kalil and step in if need be. Perhaps that's not Penn. I suggested him because I thought his age (33 in 2016) would limit his market. But perhaps no such free agent will actually exist, which would mean turning to the draft for a better backup or cutting/trading Kalil and investing big in a true replacement, a la Cordy Glenn.

Dark horse- Ryan Clady? If he's a cap casualty as many expect, would he sign on to compete somewhere and rebuild his market value?