Ponder: The Answer?

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dead_poet
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Re: Ponder: The Answer?

Post by dead_poet »

soflavike wrote: It ain't even 'al-dente'. :lol: Watching the other playoff QB's this past weekend, you could clearly see what we are missing with Ponder. Without even mentioning Rodgers' cannon, look at Russell Wilson, RGIII, Schaub, Flacco, Luck... only Andy Dalton has a similarly suspect arm.
And a bunch were underthrown, incomplete and intercepted.
The reality of the situation is that the 2012 Vikings had ZERO deep passing threat despite having a running back that forced single coverage on our wide receivers and TE's in most situations. Even accounting for the lack of superstar wide receivers on the roster, the lack of QB production is there for all to see in the numbers. Ponder is reluctant to throw deep, and for good reason.
Wow. :wallbang:
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Re: Ponder: The Answer?

Post by indianation65 »

Is Ponder the Answer? No!

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PurpleKoolaid
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Re: Ponder: The Answer?

Post by PurpleKoolaid »

I dont know if Ponder is the answer. I really wished we had never reached for him in the first place. And now his college injury is showing up again.

But maybe theres hope for him. Maybe if we got a few guards that could pass protect, Ponder might be able to make a read past his first. Watcing the playtoffs, the vikings line gave the least amount of time. Luckily Ponder was able to avoid some sacks, but man, he rarely got even 2 full seconds to make a throw.

He has alot to learn. Way too much for a guys that is supposedly so smart. But who do we get to replace him? Hopefully the Vikings org is smart enough to get a solid vet QB backup, and a new 3rd string if they wouldnt even put MBT in over Webb after the first half. And we need a new QB and WR coach.
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Re: Ponder: The Answer?

Post by smoothoperator »

his college injury was elbow, not triceps.
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Re: Ponder: The Answer?

Post by PurpleKoolaid »

smoothoperator wrote:his college injury was elbow, not triceps.
And this injury started/was an elbow injury.
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Re: Ponder: The Answer?

Post by smoothoperator »

not according to ponder
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Re: Ponder: The Answer?

Post by Mothman »

Fran Tarkenton:
But today's NFL is a quarterback-driven league. If you don't have a quality quarterback, you have no chance. The injury to Christian Ponder that kept him out of Saturday's game at Lambeau Field was devastating. I know Ponder struggled at times this year, but he really impressed me the final few weeks of the season. The team needed him to step up, and he did. I still believe he can become the guy we all want him to be. He's not there yet, but he has the physical tools and has shown he has the drive to work hard and get better.

But there's one more thing. Ponder will not become the guy we want him to be if he doesn't have more weapons around him. Peterson is obviously great, but once Harvin's season ended, there was no one to throw the ball to. Even when Harvin is healthy, Ponder needs additional options. Fortunately, you can find receivers, and you don't even have to go high in the first round of the draft to find them. Many of the best receivers in the league are second-day draft picks. Aaron Rodgers is a great quarterback for Green Bay, but he benefits by having a ton of great receivers to throw to -- none of whom is a first-round draft pick. The Vikings can find similar weapons. It just needs to be a priority.

I also believe teams should draft a quarterback every year. Not a high pick, mind you, but a guy in the middle rounds who has a chance to make it. If anything happens to Ponder, the Vikings need to have a guy behind him that gives them a chance to win. Look at what the Redskins did this year. Not only did they take Robert Griffin III in the first round, but they also went and grabbed Kirk Cousins in the fourth. When Griffin was injured a few weeks ago, Cousins gave them hope and won a couple games. There are players like him available in the draft every year. You need somebody waiting in the wings to give your team hope and confidence.
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Re: Ponder: The Answer?

Post by Texas Vike »

Mothman wrote:Fran Tarkenton:
Spot on, Fran!

Isn't this unlike him? He is measured and shows clear judgment here. I thought Fran was more bombastic.
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Re: Ponder: The Answer?

Post by Delaqure »

PurpleKoolaid wrote: And this injury started/was an elbow injury.
Completely different kind of injury. As in not the same. It would be like if next year someone his AD on his knee and AD sprains it and we say I guess ADs knee injury has cropped up again. Ummm..... Not the same injury.
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Re: Ponder: The Answer?

Post by Delaqure »

Well, I am wishy washy on Ponder. I was on the bandwagon before I was off it. I'm a little hesitant to jump back on. I fully acknowledge that he played well down the stretch and he seemed to get much better. It's that fall in the middle of the season that has me concerned. Now I do know (and have stated so many times) that poor receivers and poor protection has added to his difficulties. No doubt about it. However I really wish I had more of his work to judge him on.

As others have said it seems when he has the time to throw and gets his mechanics right he does a much better job. I am withholding complete judgement on him until next year. If we can address the receiver issues and keep improving his protection I think we will be better able to judge his abilities.

I think Fran is right on here.
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Re: Ponder: The Answer?

Post by Mothman »

Delaqure wrote:Well, I am wishy washy on Ponder. I was on the bandwagon before I was off it. I'm a little hesitant to jump back on. I fully acknowledge that he played well down the stretch and he seemed to get much better. It's that fall in the middle of the season that has me concerned. Now I do know (and have stated so many times) that poor receivers and poor protection has added to his difficulties. No doubt about it. However I really wish I had more of his work to judge him on.

As others have said it seems when he has the time to throw and gets his mechanics right he does a much better job. I am withholding complete judgement on him until next year. If we can address the receiver issues and keep improving his protection I think we will be better able to judge his abilities.

I think Fran is right on here.
I'm at the point where I just want to continue seeing improvement from Ponder and hopefully, see what he can do with more talent around him. I think the talent on offense this season contributed more to his slump than some people realize and one of the reasons he pulled out of it was because there were adjustments and improvements around him. He got a better handle on his decision-making too but I think he was pressing for a while mid-season, trying to force things to happen when positive plays just weren't coming often enough within the normal flow of the offense.

Most of his problems this year seemed to me like a normal part of the growth cycle (sorry if that sounds pretentious) of a young quarterback. They certainly weren't atypical. What Ponder needs to do now is work on his fundamentals until they become second nature, continue making smart decisions as he did during most of that final stretch of the season and work with his receivers to improve chemistry. Of course, that last bit will have to wait until he knows exactly who his receivers will be in 2013.

What the Vikings need to do is make sure they put Ponder in position to succeed. That means they can't have a 3 or 4 game stretch where they get dominated by blitzing defenses as they did this season. They must field a receiving corps that can effectively challenge defenses at all levels of the field and adapt the playcalling to make that happen. Then, of course, Ponder has to deliver. At times, he's shown he has the ability to throw the intermediate and deep ball effectively so if they provide him with the weapons to make that work, he needs to be mechanically sound and consistently make those throws the way he's capable of making them.

It sounds like a lot and it is but this is how good passing games are developed. It's about personnel first, then strategy and chemistry. One of the reasons GB has such a terrific passing game is because Rodgers and his receiving corps have been together for years. They're not only talented, they have fantastic chemistry together and that comes from familiarity and experience.

Hopefully, Ponder will come out next season and take another step forward in his development, a bigger step.
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Re: Ponder: The Answer?

Post by Arma »

I really don't like questioning Viking fan's intelligence, but I really wonder where everyone gets the noodle arm/can't throw past 20yards from. People are still basing this off bad scouting reports based on his senior season at FSU where he was never full strength?
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Re: Ponder: The Answer?

Post by mansquatch »

Ponder definitely needs to play better. We need 16 games of December Ponder or better if we want to be competitive in the post season. There are also definitely personnel issues at WR that need to be fixed as well. I also agree that talent wise the WR cannot be what they were in 2012. (How that happens is IMO not as cut and dry as everyone thinks, but I digress.)

When I look at our offense over the past season one thing that is interesting is the timing of the injuries and player recovery. AP did not really get going until mid-season. Early on, Harvin was the main attraction until he went down on Nov 4th. Simpson didn’t really start doing anything with the ball (what little he did) until December. I would say the injury situation to our horrible WR group was at its peak in NOV which also corresponds to about the worst passing stretch of Ponder’s season.

So humor a quick text only chart: Player initials are obvious. Statuses are:

S = Suspended
H = Healthy
I = Injured/ Not playing
G = Playing Hurt or “gimpy”

So breaking the season down by month you get this:

SEPT: AP = G, PH = H, KR = H, JS = S/I
OCT: AP = G/H, PH = H, KR= H, JS = G (AP really started hitting stride here)
NOV AP = H, PH = I, KR = H, JS = G
DEC AP = H, PH = I, KR = H, JS = G/H (not sure if JS fully recovered)

Obviously, you can make stats whatever you want them to be, but it is interesting to me that the worst month of health for our best receiving weapons also corresponded to the worst month for Ponder. (He did start to really struggle in OCT.)


As I said at the start, Ponder needs to improve. However, in terms of the overall offense it is interesting to me that in addition to a generally unproven group of WR, we also had injury bugs plaguing the position for most, if not all the season. John Carlson also fits this theme.

There were very few games during the season where all of the current crop of “weapons” were healthy. If you count Carlson in that mix, then there were zero games. So in that respect, I think we can conclude that we do not entirely know what players like JS and JC are capable of contributing to the offense when playing healthy as a group. I’m not sure if that is enough to retain some of these guys, but it certainly makes a case that injuries may have played some part in the lack of production of our passing game, especially during the November slide. This is also why I think it is not as open/shut that JS and JC will be gone in 2013.
Last edited by mansquatch on Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ponder: The Answer?

Post by Dark »

Arma wrote:I really don't like questioning Viking fan's intelligence, but I really wonder where everyone gets the noodle arm/can't throw past 20yards from. People are still basing this off bad scouting reports based on his senior season at FSU where he was never full strength?
No, we get that from the fact that any ball he throws past 20 yards is terribly off mark and sometimes intercepted. There was a stat stating that he was 1-17 in throws past 20 yards at some point in the season (I forget when it came out).
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Re: Ponder: The Answer?

Post by PurpleKoolaid »

Texas Vike wrote: Spot on, Fran!

Isn't this unlike him? He is measured and shows clear judgment here. I thought Fran was more bombastic.
LOL Fran sure is. But in this case he pro Ponder so he can be quoted as an expert lol
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